After death

[eggsbenedictine]

I’m posting because I am still somewhat confused on what happens after death. I understand that one who dies in good standing with the Lord either goes to Purgatory for purification and that others may enter Heaven directly, and also that some may go to hell if death comes and they are not in God’s favor. But where I’ve always been confused is when the dead are resurrected, if some already have been in Heaven do they receive their bodies again and go back, or have they been in Abrahams bosom/Paradise and are entering Heaven for the first time? If purgatory is cast away, what about some who may have just entered and have yet to be purified entirely, or haven’t died at all and gone to Purgatory, do they go directly to Heaven at the resurrection? Do hell and the lake of fire differ, if hell is cast into it? Still confused at how it all plays out, if that makes sense.

 

[R_C]

I’m posting because I am still somewhat confused on what happens after death. I understand that one who dies in good standing with the Lord either goes to Purgatory for purification and that others may enter Heaven directly, and also that some may go to hell if death comes and they are not in God’s favor.

But where I’ve always been confused is when the dead are resurrected, if some already have been in Heaven do they receive their bodies again and go back, or have they been in Abrahams bosom/Paradise and are entering Heaven for the first time?

If purgatory is cast away, what about some who may have just entered and have yet to be purified entirely, or haven’t died at all and gone to Purgatory, do they go directly to Heaven at the resurrection?

Do hell and the lake of fire differ, if hell is cast into it? Still confused at how it all plays out, if that makes sense.

Take it one step at a time

Here’s what I gather of it all, in my own words.

Eternity is a state of the soul. All three “states” are fire. In Heaven, the seraphic fire of God’s love is an ecstasy of joy and peace. In Purgatory, the purifying fire of God’s love renders souls entirely pure and worthy to see the Beatific Vision, for nothing may enter Heaven that is not all-pure, and some are saved but imperfections and minor sins still remain. However “minor sins” and “imperfections” burn like hot coals in Purgatory. In the state of hell, the damned soul rejected God and hates Him. Perceiving the fire of God’s unconditional love, the soul experiences a terrible pain, partially self-inflicted, partially caused by the demons.

“Abraham’s bosom/paradise” is the limbo of the patriarchs. This ceased to be when Christ died and descended to the dead. He thus opened the gates of heaven for them. At the final judgment, all souls will be reunited with their bodies in a glorified state. The just, for a resurrection of glory. The damned, for a resurrection of condemnation. At this point, all purification will have been fulfilled for all the just souls. Even the living who are saved would have been purified on earth by the terrible punishments that will be inflicted on the Last Days.

The state of hell and the “lake of fire” may differ inasmuch as one involves souls, the other involves souls reunited with their bodies. Both seem to be expressions for a mystical, supernatural reality outside of time and space.

There are much better explanations and descriptions out there - beginning with the Catechism available on www.vatican.va Now, it is natural that you are confused. St. Paul says that “what eye has not seen and no human mind has conceived - these things has God pepared”. It all plays out well if we run as to win the race and persevere to the end

 

[Jon_S_1]

The church/Bible teaches that there will be a new heaven and new earth someday.

When we die we go through the particular judgement and we go as you say to heaven or hell with a purification in purgatory on our way to heaven. Heaven is the presence of God. The beatific vision.

Later at the end of time we will be reunited with our resurrected bodies. These bodies will be glorified like Christ’s when he resurrected.

We will then go through the general judgement where our sins will be revealed and our dates known to all.

The damned will be destroyed in hell

The righteous whose names are in the book of life will live in the perfect new earth.

There is no change of destination between the two judgements.

 

[Zoltan_Cobalt]

Lets take a different approach to this question…

Logic and reason.

A drinking buddy of mine is a hard core atheist. His take on death is that it it just like…before you were born
. Now from an atheist point of view…that is pretty accurate. But I find it frightening. I remember what is was like before I was born. Just like a good night’s sleep without dreams.

I believe there is something more…A LOT MORE!

But let’s keep in mind that we are talking about a spiritual state…soul detached from body.
Within that state…there can be no physical pain. Fire does not hurt and physical pleasures don’t exist.

The concept of “burning” worked well with early Christians and children. It was the best way to explain the anguish a soul would endure without the presence of God. Who knows?..Maybe an eternity of burning in fire may be a pleasure compared to eternity without the Beatific Vision.

I could never understand the purpose of a “resurrected” body after death. Maybe some of our more knowledgable, theological forum members can tackle that one.

"If purgatory is cast away, what about some who may have just entered and have yet to be purified entirely, or haven’t died at all and gone to Purgatory, do they go directly to Heaven at the resurrection? "

Good question. Why not? (Remember it is not exactly a “cast away”. It is just a place of atonement) They had nothing to do with the end of the world. That is up to God. I will trust in Him to do the right thing when it comes to the faithful awaiting their reward.

 

[sierradepadre]

You all state some very interesting questions. I am replying mainly to read what your learned answers or opinions are.
Sierradepadre

 

[Aramis]

Let’s think for a moment about the things that would be “purified” in the dark and middle ages: grains, metals, linen, wool, cotton, wax.

The textiles, it’s not really purification so much as transformation - straighten the fibers, spin the fibers into yarn, weave the fibers. The “purification” is destructive - yes, you’re removing the non-fiber components, but you also render it unrecognizable. Not a good metaphor.

Grains: beat the wheat while blowing across it to break the kernels loose. Not a happy metaphor. And grinding it introduces new contaminants.

So, metals are purified in the era by, as a blademsith I know said, “Heat, Beat, Repeat.” The result is relatively recognizable, but eventually transformed into something shiny and useful. This is a pretty good metaphor.

Copper, lead, tin, and gold can be crucibled in iron crucibles, even, making it even more appropriate - heat, skim, pour into mold. Fire is the means for separating the impurity from the metal.

Wax is purified by heating and skimming. Put the wax in a pan, heat to liquid but not boiling, wait for the impurities to settle or float, skim the floaters, the pour the desired wax into a mold, while not pouring the slag at the bottom.

Fire purifies two kinds of things just by freeing the the impurities from the matrix, and yet, the original material is still recognizable after. There’s a good reason it’s used for the purgatorial metaphors.

Likewise, that Purgatory was on the edges of hell was a not uncommon theologumenon - and the fires of hell that purify on the edge destroy in the center, just like wax thrust into the fire outside the crucible burns, and copper, lead or gold outside the crucible sink to the slag of the ash, descending into even more corrupted forms.

 

[GEddie]

Eternity is outside of time.

The human psyche can “be” only as embodied, and does not pass through the intervening time between the bodily death and the resurrectional body (pneumatikon soma). This is because time is a priori physical. The soul/body/being emerges directly into life everlasting (or everlasting punishment).

Purgatory is likewise outside of time, and how that would work, is a mystery.

ICXC NIKA

 

[eggsbenedictine]

I appreciate all of your answers, they definitely helped in my understanding of it all.

 

[sierradepadre]

I hope others join in. the topic is fascinating. It would also be good if individuals from other faiths were to add a perspective as long as all of us know when to back off or when to make our educated views and not get so caught up in being right that a bit of truth is lost due to our emotional investment.

I know that at the moment , I have added nothing to this discussion as I am reading and taking it all in , so to speak.

Bless all of us.
Sierradepadre

ps: Eggsbenedictine…love that user name!