After life state

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adrian1

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A friend told me that he don’t believe that for all eternity a creature (human or angel) can refuse the knowledge of God and the love of God, in a moment God will give more knowledge and save his creature, his knowledge and wisdom, love, is beyond our understanding. What I can say, is a heresy , what church believe?
 
God gives us free will, and will not force himself upon us. If we chose to reject Him through our sins, we will eternally separate ourselves from Him, and be damned.
 
Many reject God but still God gives them the grace to find their way back to him, I don’t see how a soul can eternally reject God, God saying a soul has no more chances to ask for forgiveness is a bit like a football referee calling off a game that is on 0-0 because he can not see any chance of a goal being scored.
 
oliver109 said:
I don’t see how a soul can eternally reject God
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There are dozens of threads covering this, feel free to scour through them. Jesus is very clear though, people can reject Him, and they will be lost on account of it. That is Church teaching, which is what the OP asked for. Personal incredulity at the reality doesn’t change that reality.
 
Jesus never explained why someone can reject him and then repent while another person can reject him and never repent, he never explained that.
 
The souls in Hell are willingly cut off from God.

The grace of repentance comes from God.

If you are cut off from God, you cannot receive the grace of repentance, and therefore cannot repent of your sins.

Jesus might not have explained it in layman’s terms, but that’s why He gave us a Church. He did, however, warn us of the realities of Hell far more than any other subject.
 
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No soul I believe willingly went to Hell, it is rather that a soul committed a sin knowing that it deserves Hell and God did not give that soul the grace to repent in time before the judgement. No soul walks down to Hell like they are going to the fried chicken shop.
 
The accounts of the saints would disagree with you, as would the Church.

We certainly cannot understand that decision, but we know that Hell is a free will choice of the individual, as well as a punishment of God. God does not will that anyone be damned, but if that is what we chose through rejection of Him, that decision will be honored.

It’s not a pleasant thought, but then, Hell isn’t pleasant, and thoughts of it aren’t meant to be pleasant. You’re rejection of these Truths is based on the fact that you, personally, cannot accept it. I’m sorry, but that is a poor basis for rejection.

Incidentally, you are correct, I’ve never read a description of the souls walking into Hell. They run, they flee from the presence of God. At least one account say that this is because being close to Him pains them more than the fires of Hell.

This is all I have time for today. I encourage you to read the Catechism, and seek out the accounts of the saints. They are very enlightening.
 
I have read the whole Catechism regarding the matter and have read accounts from over 20 saints about Hell and none of them have convinced me that God is unable to save souls that commit mortal sin. Why would souls run away from God when he is all merciful, all forgiving? It would be like me running away from my father because I have done something very wrong, I would never hide from my father because I recognize thank God that he would forgive me.
 
The church of the first millennium did not speak with one voice on this issue. Many fathers (especially Eastern) taught some type of universalism—that God, as love itself, will ultimately draw all of creation back to himself.

But, there were certainly many other fathers who taught a view of God that claims that he is capable of damning for all time some angels and some humans (e.g., Sts Augustine and John Chrysostom) to an inescapable realm called Hell.

In the West, the church of the Middle Ages took the opinion of St Augustine as its default belief on the issue. (You will see a lot of that representation here at CAF.) In the East, the Orthodox were generally more aligned with the view of the universal reconciliation of all things, though not exclusively. There have been Orthodox that held an opinion closer to Augustine (that an unending Hell is possible).

But the greatest scholars of the church both East and West, in the contemporary period (last 75 years, say) are all more unified along the lines of some type of universalism (where God draws all of creation back to himself). Here is a good place to start the exploration of the issue from the salvation-of-all side of things.
 
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I used to think.that how impossible it would be that anyone upon seeing the God who created us also could possibly reject Him.

But:
We die as we live. Our wills are set upon death.

Now time itself might not be what we think, God being outside time. In that moment before death and before judgement, how long is that? I have seen and known people for years that either didn’t believe or chose to live as if there was no God. Time and again something wonderful or beautiful or even miraculous happened and they were unfazed. You can pray and hope in Gods mercy, but maybe we should also remember to pray especially for their conversion.
 
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Remember God knows all things. He calls the game when He knows that the soul will never accept His love and forgiveness.
 
Why should a soul that goes to Confession frequently suddenly decide to reject God forever? take my case for example, I sin, I confess, I hope for Gods forgiveness, why on earth would I want Hell forever? I sin, I expect forgiveness.
 
All those in hell chose to be there. When we sin and reject his love without repentance, then we will be eternally separated from God. The bible makes it very clear that you can refuse God’s judgement.
 
I used to believe that God would try to catch me off base. I don’t believe that any more. God passionately want us to be in heaven and will give us every chance to get their. We should not presume God’s mercy, however. Just recognize that we are weak and not deserving. Beg for His mercy. 🤟
 
It is not lack of knowledge that condemns us, it is lack of love. Particularly not loving God, who is love.
 
oliver109 said:
is a bit like a football referee calling off a game
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Isn’t it more like saying that the referee will not allow a goal attempt after the game is over? Basically, you had your chance and now it is too late.
 
I somewhat I agree with this, it is more like we sin knowing there are consequences but not having full knowledge of exactly what they are. If we, for example, lived in Hell for a day we wouldn’t probably repent right away and turn to God immediately if we could. He does always allow us to turn to Him and says that he wants all of his creation to be with Him. He was sorrowful for the lost ones who went to Hell and will in the future, He Loves us all.
 
Yes, that is the best way. Just like Jesus we must humble ourselves and recognize our sinfulness and imperfection then repent and ask for His Graces so we can become more holy. (Obviously Jesus didn’t have to become more holy because He is part of the Trinity)
 
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