Agency: God a Liar, Satan a Hero?

[catholic-rcia]

“if there was no pre existence who was Satan and how did he lead a third of the host of heaven”

Satan was an angel whom was created by God through Jesus, he was created Good. But:

394 Scripture witnesses to the disastrous influence of the one Jesus calls “a murderer from the beginning”, who would even try to divert Jesus from the mission received from his Father.273 "The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the works of the devil."274 In its consequences the gravest of these works was the mendacious seduction that led man to disobey God.

For in him (Jesus) were created all things in heaven and on earth, the visible and the invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers; all things were created through him (Jesus) and for him.

(This includes Satan)

He is before all things, and in him all things hold together.

Colossians****

Chapter 1:16-17

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The devil, the hosts existed in heaven prior to our creation, they were also created by God through the second person of the Trinity, the eternal Son of God. (John 1 chapter 1) When you speak of pre-existence you are setting the table for God being created and Jesus being the equal of satan (brother of) in this pre-existance . This is the other gospel spoken of in the Holy Scriptures.

You need to have the revelation of God / Jesus / Holy Spirit as sole creator,(Includes all other planets if they do indeed exist) man as created in His image. (Creator / Created)

In times past, God spoke in partial and various ways to our ancestors through the prophets;

in these last days, he spoke to us through a son, (Jesus)whom he made heir of all things and through whom he created the universe, (John 1 chapter 1)

who is the refulgence of his glory, the very imprint of his being, and who sustains all things by his mighty word. (John 1 chapter 1) When he had accomplished purification from sins, he took his seat at the right hand of the Majesty on high,

as far superior to the angels as the name he has inherited is more excellent than theirs.

For to which of the angels did God ever say: “You are my son; this day I have begotten you”? Or again: “I will be a father to him, and he shall be a son to me”?

And again, when he leads the first-born into the world, he says: “Let all the angels of God worship him.”

Of the angels he says: “He makes his angels winds and his ministers a fiery flame”;

but of the Son: "Your throne, O God, stands forever and ever; and a righteous scepter is the scepter of your kingdom. Hebrews chapter 1

Continued___

 

[catholic-rcia]

www.http://www.scborromeo.org/ccc/p1s2c1p7.htm#385

391 Behind the disobedient choice of our first parents lurks a seductive voice, opposed to God, which makes them fall into death out of envy.266 Scripture and the Church’s Tradition see in this being a fallen angel, called “Satan” or the “devil”.267 The Church teaches that Satan was at first a good angel, made by God: "The devil and the other demons were indeed created naturally good by God,(Jesus) but they became evil by their own doing."268

392 Scripture speaks of a sin of these angels.269 This “fall” consists in the free choice of these created spirits, who radically and irrevocably *rejected *God and his reign. We find a reflection of that rebellion in the tempter’s words to our first parents: "You will be like God."270 The devil “has sinned from the beginning”; he is “a liar and the father of lies”.271

 

[paul_barlow]

www.http://www.scborromeo.org/ccc/p1s2c1p7.htm#385

391 Behind the disobedient choice of our first parents lurks a seductive voice, opposed to God, which makes them fall into death out of envy.266 Scripture and the Church’s Tradition see in this being a fallen angel, called “Satan” or the “devil”.267 The Church teaches that Satan was at first a good angel, made by God: "The devil and the other demons were indeed created naturally good by God,(Jesus) but they became evil by their own doing."268

392 Scripture speaks of a sin of these angels.269 This “fall” consists in the free choice of these created spirits, who radically and irrevocably *rejected *God and his reign. We find a reflection of that rebellion in the tempter’s words to our first parents: "You will be like God."270 The devil “has sinned from the beginning”; he is “a liar and the father of lies”.271

tried the link it did not work in genral we agree with all this but we differ in the view of the fall. we recognize that adam and eve did sin. but it was not until after the fall that we had the knowledge to make the choices to follow gods council. we also belive that we were spirit children and were there at the time of satans rebelion. and that we the people were followers of god and supported him at the time of the rebelion. that is why satan hates us we gained a body that he can never have. that is why he rages against us he is a proud being and he cant stand the fact that we are loved by hevenly father. and he wants us to be like him misrable. original sin is a point of debate we belive that the attonement removed that from us. the same as the death and resurrection of jesus did to over come death that the fall of adam brought into the world.

 

[catholic-rcia]

Hi Paul

Here is a direct link to the site.

http://scripturecatholic.com/

Satan hates Jesus, we get caught up in this. Like I have said before Mel Gibson really brought this out in his rendition of the Passion. Jesus’ focus was always on the devil and not on us, except to come and carry us home. The Gospel is pretty clear on our creaturely status. We were created by God, no pre-existence. As creatures we are not here to prove ourselves worthy of heaven. We aren’t and we can never be, accepting by the way of the Cross. We are freely given a share in what Christ has always had, all we need to do is accept Christ. Think about it, nothing becomes something and is given the ability to know it. We are adopted sons and daughters through Christ. What a wonderful gift to creation!

The LDS church offers an elite humanism. It is hard to resist. My thoughts on that take me to Jesus in the garden. The devil really did not offer him anything that was bad like food and success. But Jesus knew it was not offered from God. He felt our temptations, all of them, he knows us, our hearts. But he is God, a God who came to die for us because the temptation is to great for us mere mortals. The big one is the temptation to become a God as God is. This is what we are here to learn, there is only One and we get to be with him forever. He being our goal for heaven and nothing else.

From the video “called to be free”

lhvm.org/wcg.htm

What took place on the Cross saved us, no good works we could ever do would be enough to save us. It’s about having a relationship with Jesus Christ. It is not dictated or mandated by what we do or how often we do it. If God had not sent Christ we would have no hope. Christ brought something that did away with the whole game. He said all bets are off, trust me I have redeemed you.

God who is rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ, and raised us up together, and made us sit together in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus… For by grace you have been saved through faith, and not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast…" Ephesians 2:1-9

God Bless Paul