Agnostic friend rejects God (long post)

[AshestoAshes]

I think this topic is going to get many different responses and opinions. I could really take all the advice I can get.

I have a very close friend who I’ve known for over two years. He’s become quite important to me. I learned, a while back, that he was Agnostic. Raised and baptized Catholic, but hasn’t practice the faith in years. I knew the Agnostic part early on, but I won’t end a friendship because they do not believe what I do. I definitely think that would cause them to further reject Christianity and they would see me as over zealous and snobby. Or, that is my opinion. I have other Agnostic friends (along with Catholic and Protestant).

As for my friend I previously mentioned, I perceive him to be very angry at God. He had a terrible childhood, horrible teenage years and not a not-so-good adult life. While everyone’s life is hard to some degree, his is definitely on the worse side. For this reason, he rejects God.

One moment, he’ll speak as though he doesn’t believe in the Christian God by using quotes or saying things like ‘supposedly’ or ‘according to Catholic teaching…’. Other times, he speaks as if he does believe in God, but rejects him. For example, we were speaking about how God let’s you choose your own path. He’ll let you reject him and my friend responds was “I am rejecting him, I did so many years ago.” To me, that means he does believe in the Christian God, but is doing what he said; rejecting him.

I was deeply saddened when I heard him say this. There have been many others who have suffered worse and still believe. And one is supposed to unite your sufferings with Christ. He is not and I am scared that he may choose Hell if he were given the choice once he died. Even if God was standing in front of him, telling my friend that all he had to do was accept that God and Jesus were real and to choose to spend his life with them in Heaven, I’m afraid my friend would choose Hell out of pride or anger.

I really don’t know what to do. I also learned that he had been doing thing such as using Ouija board and he wanted to learn voodoo (I only learned this a few months ago). I told him that I could not be around that and he actually choose to get rid of the board and not to learn voodoo, in order to keep me in his life. So, that led me to believe that he MAY have a small chance of converting, but one really never knows. I never thought I’d convert to Catholicism and here I am.

Is it possible that I am called to be in his life to help lead him to Christ? I am a new Catholic, so I still make so many mistakes. With the Lord by my side, maybe I could influence my friend to change his ways. The problem is that I hate debate, especially when it comes to religion. I get flustered and I forget what I’ve learned. I cannot properly defend the faith when this happens.

Leaving his life does not seem like a viable options, but if God ever lead me to such conclusions, I’d obey (with a heavy heart, mind you.). Then, there’s the complication of romantic interest, which with both have for each other, but are not pursuing (issues on his end and religion is an issue that I have not admitted to him, yet. Plus, we live very far away) Sometimes, people convert after marrying someone Catholic. But, I have also heard about marriages that became quite difficult due to this religious difference. The relationship is in God’s hands. If He wants us to be, then that’s what will happen. If not, then I will remain friends with him.

I guess I need advice on how to get my friend to hear God’s word. I cannot make him convert; only God can. I can, however, help him get closer to God and Heaven. But how can I do so? I also pray about this topic, quite often.

 

[rose_kelly]

I think this topic is going to get many different responses and opinions. I could really take all the advice I can get.

I have a very close friend who I’ve known for over two years. He’s become quite important to me. I learned, a while back, that he was Agnostic. Raised and baptized Catholic, but hasn’t practice the faith in years. I knew the Agnostic part early on, but I won’t end a friendship because they do not believe what I do. I definitely think that would cause them to further reject Christianity and they would see me as over zealous and snobby. Or, that is my opinion. I have other Agnostic friends (along with Catholic and Protestant).

As for my friend I previously mentioned, I perceive him to be very angry at God. He had a terrible childhood, horrible teenage years and not a not-so-good adult life. While everyone’s life is hard to some degree, his is definitely on the worse side. For this reason, he rejects God.

One moment, he’ll speak as though he doesn’t believe in the Christian God by using quotes or saying things like ‘supposedly’ or ‘according to Catholic teaching…’. Other times, he speaks as if he does believe in God, but rejects him. For example, we were speaking about how God let’s you choose your own path. He’ll let you reject him and my friend responds was “I am rejecting him, I did so many years ago.” To me, that means he does believe in the Christian God, but is doing what he said; rejecting him.

I was deeply saddened when I heard him say this. There have been many others who have suffered worse and still believe. And one is supposed to unite your sufferings with Christ. He is not and I am scared that he may choose Hell if he were given the choice once he died. Even if God was standing in front of him, telling my friend that all he had to do was accept that God and Jesus were real and to choose to spend his life with them in Heaven, I’m afraid my friend would choose Hell out of pride or anger.

I really don’t know what to do. I also learned that he had been doing thing such as using Ouija board and he wanted to learn voodoo (I only learned this a few months ago). I told him that I could not be around that and he actually choose to get rid of the board and not to learn voodoo, in order to keep me in his life. So, that led me to believe that he MAY have a small chance of converting, but one really never knows. I never thought I’d convert to Catholicism and here I am.

Is it possible that I am called to be in his life to help lead him to Christ? I am a new Catholic, so I still make so many mistakes. With the Lord by my side, maybe I could influence my friend to change his ways. The problem is that I hate debate, especially when it comes to religion. I get flustered and I forget what I’ve learned. I cannot properly defend the faith when this happens.

Leaving his life does not seem like a viable options, but if God ever lead me to such conclusions, I’d obey (with a heavy heart, mind you.). Then, there’s the complication of romantic interest, which with both have for each other, but are not pursuing (issues on his end and religion is an issue that I have not admitted to him, yet. Plus, we live very far away) Sometimes, people convert after marrying someone Catholic. But, I have also heard about marriages that became quite difficult due to this religious difference. The relationship is in God’s hands. If He wants us to be, then that’s what will happen. If not, then I will remain friends with him.

I guess I need advice on how to get my friend to hear God’s word. I cannot make him convert; only God can, I can, however, help him get closer to God and Heaven.But how can I do so? I also pray about this topic, quite often.

Perhaps only by prayer and continuing with friendship only, if that’s possible, but avoiding conversation relating to religion.
At present, he is traumatised by past experiences and angry, there is no guarantee that you alone can help him be released of those problems.

Also, be conscious of the fact that in that confused state of mind its quite likely that he will be viewing all manner of material associated with atheism, testing you too. and (though sometimes unconsciously) will be seeking ways of projecting doubts about our faith in your mind.

Please be careful.

 

[rose_kelly]

I understand he’s a lapsed Catholic and all.
What I don’t understand is…how do you know how close or far from heaven he is?
Do you have insider information that tells you where you both are on the map?
He may be way closer than you think.

.

I agree with you on that point. I don’t believe God would deny a good living person a place in Heaven, merely because they hadn’t had any faith, or belonged to a different religion.

 

[fred_conty]

Sometimes we are forced to acknowledge that at the moment there is nothing we can say. Patience teaches us to wait in suffering and be a friend and a good influence on them.

Of course there is always the need for the Holy Spirit to move that person, to change their heart. And this is where are prayers are important.

There is the Green Scapular given to us by our blessed Mother with her promise of bringing back a person to the faith. She has asked that it be given to those who are having problems with their faith. There are explanations of the green scapular on CAF so just do a search on it and the information is available.

 

[AshestoAshes]

Sometimes we are forced to acknowledge that at the moment there is nothing we can say. Patience teaches us to wait in suffering and be a friend and a good influence on them.

Of course there is always the need for the Holy Spirit to move that person, to change their heart. And this is where are prayers are important.

There is the Green Scapular given to us by our blessed Mother with her promise of bringing back a person to the faith. She has asked that it be given to those who are having problems with their faith. There are explanations of the green scapular on CAF so just do a search on it and the information is available.

I never heard of the Green Scapular. Thank you, for informing. I’m actually going to consecrate myself to her starting September 4th.

I figured there really wasn’t much I could do or say. I will continue to pray for him, however

 

[AshestoAshes]

Perhaps only by prayer and continuing with friendship only, if that’s possible, but avoiding conversation relating to religion.
At present, he is traumatised by past experiences and angry, there is no guarantee that you alone can help him be released of those problems.

Also, be conscious of the fact that in that confused state of mind its quite likely that he will be viewing all manner of material associated with atheism, testing you too. and (though sometimes unconsciously) will be seeking ways of projecting doubts about our faith in your mind.

Please be careful.

He actually attempts to use my faith to help me, sometimes. It’s strange. For example, if I’m sad and just being negative towards myself, he’ll tell me something like we’re all made in God’s image and that we shouldn’t be so harsh on ourselves. I know that when he speaks this way, he’s saying it because I believe it. It’s not done in a condescending way at all. If I didn’t know better, he could convince me he wasn’t an agnostic, in those moments.

I do try to avoid conversations about religion, though. If he brings it up, I defend it the best I can and it never really get too…mean, if you will. He accepts what I believe, but I’m sure may try to unconsciously caste doubt. I actually became a stronger Christian after he was already in my life. I became Catholic earlier this year. In a weird way, he made me search for answers and it led me here, instead of away from God.

 

[AshestoAshes]

Unless he says he “rejects God” because of the reasons you list above, I wouldn’t jump to the conclusion that these are the reasons why he’s agnostic.
Does he not *tell *you why he doesn’t believe a god exists?
Most agnostics/atheists believe as they do for more reasons than just a terrible childhood, etc.

.

I’ve asked him exactly why he doesn’t believe and he said ‘suffering’. We talked more in depth, but he said that if God were benevolent, why did the innocent suffer. The usual stuff people ask. He was definitely including his own suffering. He does believe a deity exists, he just doesn’t know what it is, basically.

Speaking as an agnostic, I can tell you that his wording here doesn’t necessarily mean he believes. He is probably just using the lingo and certain language to try to express to you what he’s thinking and feeling.
Plus…if he believed in a God, he wouldn’t reject the god. Atheists/Agnostics don’t “reject” gods…they truly don’t believe they exist or don’t know if they do or not.

.

I think that debatable. I think it’s very possible for someone hate God. Those who hate Him cannot be Christian or Jewish, Muslim, etc. Correct? So, they’d either be Agnostic or Satanist. Maybe Pagan or Wiccan. He also told me that a big reason why he stopped practicing Catholicism was because when he was a child, he prayed that his situation would get better. He was abused by his father and I think he prayed for the beatings to stop and they didn’t. God didn’t answer he prayer and he swore to never pray, again. I think that’s someone who is rejecting God.

Trust me. If an all mighty god stood before an Atheist as proof and offered heaven or hell…the Atheist would take heaven (assuming it’s better). Contrary to what I read a lot on this forum, people don’t not-believe in god because of their pride or anger.
They usually don’t believe because they’ve done research, listened to the arguments, and don’t see the evidence for it.

.

I once asked him something about what if he was wrong and he said something like “If I got sent to Hell because I didn’t believe in the right God, I’d gladly go to Hell.”

There is a looooooot of distance between getting rid of a Ouija board and going back to the Catholic faith. A lot. Ouija boards freak a lot of people out, whether they are religious or not.

.

I’m aware. That’s why I said there MAY be a SMALL chance on him converting, based on that

But…you haven’t said there is anything wrong or bad with his “ways” except the Ouija board/voodoo thing…and he already changed that.
When you say “change his ways”…what do you mean?
Is he out all night at the strip clubs guzzling vodka until the wee hours and getting in brawls and hurting people?
Or do you just mean that you want him to be a devout Catholic instead of Agnostic…and you want him to change his beliefs?

.

Well, he’s had premarital sex which is considered a sin by Christians. And he masturbates, but I didn’t even know that was a sin until I converted. Other than that, he’s actually not to bad. I would like him to convert to Christianity, though. Even if it weren’t Catholicism

I understand he’s a lapsed Catholic and all.
What I don’t understand is…how do you know how close or far from heaven he is?
Do you have insider information that tells you where you both are on the map?
He may be way closer than you think.
.

As Catholics, we are taught that one never knows the final destination of someone, other than God. So, I don’t know. However, we are also taught that those who reject God are greatly sinning, especially if one does so knowingly. There’s a chance he could go to Heaven. It’s probably a thin chance, however. It’s like if someone was extremely mean to their parents for years and even ignored them. Eventually, that person becomes homeless. Should a parent let their kid move back in? Probably not. If we reject God our whole lives and are cruel to Him, why should he let us in His house?

 

[schaeffer]

sounds like he is someone who believes God rejected him. He believed, prayed and presumably was raised in a Catholic family…where these horrible things happened to him. Not such a great “advertisement” for God and Catholicism.

I was raised in that family, my boyfriend’s father used to beat him to get him to go to church, truly beat…punch etc etc. And mom stands by. Or sometimes in such families, the teachings of the Church and God are actually used as excuses or reasons for the abuse.

The Church is not responsible, but when you grow up hearing things like that and experiencing things like that…it’s hard to feel warm and cozy to God and the Church.

It’s pretty common for people who experienced such to believe that God rejected them and now they are returning the favor. If God does exist, it’s clear he wants nothing to do with them, just as it’s clear that he is alive, real and blesses other people. It seems your friend sees what good your faith and your God do you and doesn’t want to take that from you, but his own experience with God is quite the opposite.

He’s searching for something, an alternative etc via Ouija and voodoo perhaps, a spirituality, faith family, meaning that might make sense AND support rather than reject him.

No clue if there is anything you can do other than pray and be honest about the role faith and God plays in your own life.

I would suggest NOT getting into a romantic attachment if you are serious about your faith and raising your children Catholic. While it’s true that some interfaith marriages work, and sometimes the non Catholic spouse converts, either genuinely or to simplify things, they more often take a toll on the marriage and faith formation of the children.

And someone who is actively seeking non Christian spiritual alternatives probably poses a more challenging marriage situation.