Agnostic Theist

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catholicray

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Please be merciful to me I have been debating atheists on Atheist Republic. I sure could use some help too mind you. My mind is worn out.

Okay here we go.

There term agnostic is defined one of two ways:
a person who does not know a God exists and does not believe a God exists.

Or

a person who does not know God exists

If we use the 2nd definition then an agnostic-theist is not a contradiction.

Quick question: What do you think the contradictions would be if someone were a Catholic agnostic-theist?
 
catholicray said:
Quick question: What do you think the contradictions would be if someone were a Catholic agnostic-theist?
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Here goes.

Agnostic = Reason can’t know anything about God

Theist = Belief that God exists

Catholic = Belief in Divine Revelation

Therefore, a Catholic agnostic-theist is someone who believes in God and in Divine Revelation but rejects natural theology. If such a person existed, he’d be a heretic because the First Vatican Council taught that God can be known with certainty by the natural light of human reason. In other words, reason alone can tell us that God exists.
 
I thought you might mention that but here is my dilemma.

If you believed the statement from the council it doesn’t necessarily mean you know the statement is true.

In this situation the Church “knows”
The Agnostic “believes”

Does belief constitute knowledge that the statement is true?
 
This isn’t the first time I’ve seen a discussion of this kind here at CAF. As far as I know, both your definitions of “agnostic” are inexact. The term has only one correct definition, which is someone who asserts it is impossible to know whether or not there is a God. Therefore “agnostic theist” is already a contradiction.

I’m fully aware, of course, that there are people – including some who post here at CAF – who disagree, claiming that the word can have other meanings. But their witterings have no interest for me. They’re just kiddies playing a game of “let’s pretend.”
 
One last question for confirmation

I am not agnostic because I “believe” what the Church professes to “know”

Am I a heretic if I myself do not know if the Church knows?
 
It’s up to the Church to define what she means by “heretic.” I have never needed to know the exact meaning, in that kind of minute detail, “believing” as opposed to “knowing.” Possibly you might find the answer to your question in the CCC. Sorry, that’s the best I can do on the spur of the moment!
 
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catholicray said:
Am I a heretic if I myself do not know if the Church knows?
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Then the boy’s father cried out, “I do believe, help my unbelief!” (Mark 9:24)

And Jesus healed his son (who was afflicted with a demon).

Later he explained to his disciples “This kind can only come out through prayer.” Let us pray.
 
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Beryllos said:
Later he explained to his disciples “This kind can only come out through prayer.” Let us pray.
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This is useful thank you. Please pray for me brothers and sisters. I’ll be getting myself to Church as soon as possible.
 
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