M
MNathaniel
Guest
Wondering if any agnostic/non-religious folks here might be able to offer me insight into a ‘block’ one of my friends has that I just don’t understand.
He’s sort of quasi-atheist/quasi-spiritual. Doesn’t have any self-defined label but would probably say ‘agnostic’ (leaning atheist or quasi-Buddhist) is closest to where he’s at right now.
What flummoxes me is that he point-blank refuses to ever address a prayer, even using hypothetical language, to “God, if you exist…” or “God, as you know yourself to be and not as I imagine you to be, if you exist…” Like, he’s told me on a couple occasions that he’d be open to, or even want to, have it revealed to him if there is a God. But then, when I suggest that Christians believe that those who seek God, find Him, and suggest that my friend express his openness to having this revealed by praying something simple like:
“God, if you exist… please help me to know that you exist.”
He invariably alters it to address the prayer to “The Universe”, or “The Forces of the Universe”, or some such. And in my head I’m like, no, what are you doing? You already know the universe exists, and we all believe there are ‘forces’ in the universe; what you’re not sure about and said you were open to asking about is God, so why not just say “God, if you exist”? If the whole point is to explore whether God exists, I just can’t follow the rationale for avoiding addressing Him as if He might, in hypothetical terms.
Like, obviously (I believe that) God still knows about each thought and word regardless of who we consciously ‘address’ it to… but still, it seems reasonable to me that if someone goes out of their way to avoid even hypothetically and conditionally addressing their prayer to God, God could very reasonably stay silent for now, because technically the person is going out of their way to avoid even asking to know about ‘Him’ yet. They’re just addressing their question to ‘the universe’ (which can’t talk back).
I’m not saying God’s an automatic response service that responds immediately or as-expected to any inquiry, either. Nor that He can never come knocking with someone who’s completely unaware of a reason to search for Him. But I do believe that if we sincerely seek Him, He’ll let us find Him (if you disagree, that may be a topic for a different thread).
My question here is just: Does my friend’s insistence on rephrasing the prayer resonate with other agnostics/atheists here? Can you help explain it to me? Or is this just an unusual thing unique to my friend?
Because before I was Catholic I was totally open to things like asking hypothetical entities if they exist. I honestly don’t get going out of one’s way to avoid ‘addressing’ a prayer to the hypothetical being in question. If the entity doesn’t exist, that’s fine, you just won’t get a response. Not yet believing in the entity’s existence isn’t a reason not to yell its name into a cave and see if it yells back. It’s like writing to the North Pole and saying “Santa, if you exist…” or shouting into an ancient Greek cave: “Medusa, if you exist…”
He’s sort of quasi-atheist/quasi-spiritual. Doesn’t have any self-defined label but would probably say ‘agnostic’ (leaning atheist or quasi-Buddhist) is closest to where he’s at right now.
What flummoxes me is that he point-blank refuses to ever address a prayer, even using hypothetical language, to “God, if you exist…” or “God, as you know yourself to be and not as I imagine you to be, if you exist…” Like, he’s told me on a couple occasions that he’d be open to, or even want to, have it revealed to him if there is a God. But then, when I suggest that Christians believe that those who seek God, find Him, and suggest that my friend express his openness to having this revealed by praying something simple like:
“God, if you exist… please help me to know that you exist.”
He invariably alters it to address the prayer to “The Universe”, or “The Forces of the Universe”, or some such. And in my head I’m like, no, what are you doing? You already know the universe exists, and we all believe there are ‘forces’ in the universe; what you’re not sure about and said you were open to asking about is God, so why not just say “God, if you exist”? If the whole point is to explore whether God exists, I just can’t follow the rationale for avoiding addressing Him as if He might, in hypothetical terms.
Like, obviously (I believe that) God still knows about each thought and word regardless of who we consciously ‘address’ it to… but still, it seems reasonable to me that if someone goes out of their way to avoid even hypothetically and conditionally addressing their prayer to God, God could very reasonably stay silent for now, because technically the person is going out of their way to avoid even asking to know about ‘Him’ yet. They’re just addressing their question to ‘the universe’ (which can’t talk back).
I’m not saying God’s an automatic response service that responds immediately or as-expected to any inquiry, either. Nor that He can never come knocking with someone who’s completely unaware of a reason to search for Him. But I do believe that if we sincerely seek Him, He’ll let us find Him (if you disagree, that may be a topic for a different thread).
My question here is just: Does my friend’s insistence on rephrasing the prayer resonate with other agnostics/atheists here? Can you help explain it to me? Or is this just an unusual thing unique to my friend?
Because before I was Catholic I was totally open to things like asking hypothetical entities if they exist. I honestly don’t get going out of one’s way to avoid ‘addressing’ a prayer to the hypothetical being in question. If the entity doesn’t exist, that’s fine, you just won’t get a response. Not yet believing in the entity’s existence isn’t a reason not to yell its name into a cave and see if it yells back. It’s like writing to the North Pole and saying “Santa, if you exist…” or shouting into an ancient Greek cave: “Medusa, if you exist…”
Last edited:
