Alchoholics and priests

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debraran

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When the pedophile scandal hit, the worries about alchoholic priests got swept to the back burner. Priests have always been known as closet (and not so closet) drinkers, especially as they got older. It seemed in my childhood, everyone knew one who drank too much. I wonder today, with the stress’s more and the lack of support (for now) still a problem, what they do to help young priests identify this problem before and after.
I was reminded of it when a co-worker, who is an extraordinary minister, commented that it concerns her how so many visiting priests to her parish drink so much wine and so early in the morning. With the priest shortage, no one wants to complain about a preist who has too much to drink, if he gets through the mass, but I hope they aren’t given a blind eye because it’s a debilitating disease.
alcoholics-anonymous.org/en_is_aa_for_you.cfm?PageID=16&SubPage=89
I found this quote on a newspaper site from Archbishop Weakland:
Milwaukee’s Catholic Archbishop Rembert Weakland has written to local priests about the number of child sexual abuse accusations against area priests, and how much those accusations have cost the archdiocese.Weakland, who reaches the mandatory retirement age of 75 next month, likened the controversy of pedophile priests today to alcoholic priests who were considered the major problem when he was a young priest. Some said the answer to alcoholism was to let priests marry, but that’s not the answer for either alcoholism or pedophilia, he said

I tend to agree…I think it’s just that priests can’t be hung out to dry and that the “laying of the hands” although holy, doesn’t keep them alone from temptation, sin and make them “teflon” to lonliness, depression and other human weakness.
 
You raise a good (and real) concern. I might add chronic obesity to the list of problems that too many priests suffer from.

So how to go about addressing these concerns?
 
Priests have always been known as closet (and not so closet) drinkers, especially as they got older.
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Ummm. . .personally I would like to see a good solid medical source for this assertion, (not just a website on alcoholism) that not only specifically gives numbers but showcases the difference between someone who drinks alcohol, and someone who meets the medical diagnosis of alcoholism.

Because when I see this kind of writing. . .that not only labels ‘all’ priests, but just says ‘drinkers’, not ‘drinkers to excess’… . I tend to want to see a little more ‘hard core’ data to shore up its apparent insinuations that all priests are secret drinkers (closet) and alcoholics. . .

And especially when I see the (no doubt well-meaning, God bless them) ‘friends’ who speak of their concern about how they THINK Father X ‘drinks too much’ to all and sundry EXCEPT Father X himself. . .)
 
I will try to address that…so much has been in books on the priesthood and vocations, books on why priests leave, etc. So much is confidential, that you don’t always get names. There are reports from alcohol abuse clinics that name percentages, but these are only the ones that seek help. The ones that are unknown “exact” numbers are the ones that suffer siliently or don’t say they have a problem. Many public priests (some on EWTN for instance) will be honest and mention that along with other issues that are not addressed well in seminary.
I don’t fault that woman for not saying anything, these are visiting priests helping out that she observed using a lot of wine vs what normally would be used and using alcohol later. Most priests, like any other person with a problem like that don’t appreciate your (name removed by moderator)ut any more than the doctor or lawyer who has a problem would.
As that archbishop said, it has been a big problem among some priests for a long time. Some might have a genetic disposition to it, but it was usually blamed when it happened later, on lonliness and filling a void.
I also remember a priest on Mother Angelica’s show saying how many priests suffer in silience, not wanting to admit a weakness or ask to not have the regular wine present. It isn’t something that can be done secretly, you need permission to change it.

This site had some interesting articles /talks about clergy and alcohol.nccatoday.org/
 
I do think it’s a problem with priests abusing alcohol. I don’t know how large and pervasive but have witnessed it over the years. It appears to me that it is “swept under the rug,” so to speak.

John
 
debraran said:
When the pedophile scandal hit, the worries about alchoholic priests got swept to the back burner. Priests have always been known as closet (and not so closet) drinkers, especially as they got older. It.
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do you have some evidence for this accusation and characterization of all priests, which is what you are implying? instead of beginning with a blanket indictment of all priest as you did why not simply link whatever article contains information you wish to discuss.
 
I never meant to imply all priests, not even half! But, you would have to be blind not to see how it has been a problem. I have read a lot of books over the years, by nuns, priests, seminarians, etc. and they have mentioned it, especially before the scandals. They even mentioned sexual misconduct but no one cared until it hit the secular news. Fr. Groechel’s book on renewal (about 10 years ago) started off with a disgraced priests shame after being caught with soliciting a prostitute. The arch-bishop I mentioned is far from alone, many priests I’ve talked too know of or battled their own demons. It doesn’t not touch priests and being alone sometimes makes it worse.
I know there have been studies, some might be on Amazon or other places. The article I linked if you go to the top, under older articles, lists ones about alcoholic priests and how to deal with the same, etc. Shame and denial is shared by everyone and they mention how they tried to protect their reputations. Sometimes you do more harm then good.
I don’t think again, it’s most or all, but it is a problem.
 
I have seen it over the years in various parishes in the Los Angeles Archdiocese. This being anecdotal I have no idea what the statistics are or if there are any. Unfortunately, for the powers to be to let an aging pastor run a church with a school attached when he has a drinking serious problem is highly inappropriate and this I have witnessed.

John
 
It’s better we pray for them because they are just human and ofcourse have many weaknesses.
As Mutter Vogel’s worldwide Love: " One should NEVER attack a priest, even when he’s in error, rather one should pray and do penance that I’ll grant him My grace again. He alone fully represent ME, even when he doesn’t live after My example."
(29.6.1929)
When a priest falls, we should extend him a helping hand THROUGH PRAYER AND NOT THROUGH ATTACKS.
“I myself will be his judge, NO ONE BUT I.”
“Whoever voices judgment over a priest has voiced it over me, child, never let a priest be attacked, take up his defense.” (Feast of Christ the King 1937).
"If you hear a judgment (against a priest), pray Hail Mary.
(28.6.1939)

Hail Mary full of grace
The Lord is with thee
Blessed art thou among women
and blessed is the fruit of thy womb, Jesus.
Holy Mary, Mother of God, pray for us sinners,
now`and at the hour of our death. Amen
 
I have no idea what the percentage is of Priests who are alcoholics. But I am sober 24 years in AA, and here are some observations.

We have Priests in AA. The bad old days of regarding alcoholism as a sin, to be dealt with by exorcisms, pledges, and so on are gone. So is the concept of “reformed alcoholics”, and good riddence.

We alcoholics are not bad people trying to be good, but sick people trying to be well. The disease concept of alcoholism is well esteblished, endorsed by the American Medical Association, and accepted by the Catholic Church.

How well accepted? Every Catholic retreat center will sponser retreats for those in AA, led by Priests who sobered up with the help of AA. Priets will now give us, if we ask, The Annointing Of The Sick.

Sober Priests can now use a sort of wine with a very very very tiny amount of alcohol in it, as far as the chalice they drink goes.

Another Priest I know has mastered the art of having only a small drop of wine go into the chalice, although the congregation would think they saw a good glassfull go in. Water is added to dilute it to a safe strength.

As I noted, I have no idea what percentage of Priests are alcoholiccs, nor what percentage of those alcoholic Priests make it into recovery. But my hat is off to them.

The Venerable Matt Talbot once told his sister, “Susan, never be too hard on a man who can’t give up drinking. It’s as hard to give up drink as it is to raise the dead to life.” Amen

“What’s the word? Thunderbird!
How’s it sold? Good ‘n’ cold.
What’s the jive? Bird’s alive.
What’s the price? Thirty twice.”
 
Andruschak, God bless you and all who suffer with addictions. It is very, very hard and most people who don’t crave the drug/drink can’t understand. I’ve known ones that made it and take one day at a time and some that still struggle. I hope God gives you the grace to continue to be a witness to those who still do.

I think when men or women are in positions of counseling and being a good example, they have a harder time with confessing and admitting they themselves need help. They feel weak but really they are strong when they admit it and might be a good example for someone else.
 
wina said:
It’s better we pray for them because they are just human and ofcourse have many weaknesses.
As Mutter Vogel’s worldwide Love: " One should NEVER attack a priest, even when he’s in error, rather one should pray and do penance that I’ll grant him My grace again.
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I don’t think it is attacking to discuss a very real problem. It is just mere acknowledgment in order that something positive can be done in response to assist the situation and persons affected.
 
chicago said:
I don’t think it is attacking to discuss a very real problem. It is just mere acknowledgment in order that something positive can be done in response to assist the situation and persons affected.
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Yes, I agree with you. I’m sorry, it’s my mistake.😊
 
debraran said:
Andruschak, God bless you and all who suffer with addictions. It is very, very hard and most people who don’t crave the drug/drink can’t understand. I’ve known ones that made it and take one day at a time and some that still struggle. I hope God gives you the grace to continue to be a witness to those who still do.

I think when men or women are in positions of counseling and being a good example, they have a harder time with confessing and admitting they themselves need help. They feel weak but really they are strong when they admit it and might be a good example for someone else.
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God has indeed given me, and recovered alcoholic Priests, a tremendous grace. As for being a witness, I have to be careful in AA. I do not preach or proslytize. My being sober 24 years is enough of an example. I share about being a Catholic, but do not ever imply that this is the only way to sobriety.
 
That’s true, you have to do what works for you. An old friend of mine, battled heroin for 15 or more years…finally quit it for good with NA but wasn’t religious at all. He said, "we are all a drink/smoke/pill away from going back, when you start to think you have a “system” you put your guard down. BUT, just seeing someone sober/straight is an inspiration when you feel like it’s just too hard.
One bishop said this on approaching a priest (it was written many years ago, but still has merit)
In your Conferences you take up the question when is a priest an alcoholic. I don’t know that anyone can determine the embryonic signs of alcoholism. Some talk begins among clergy in the diocese. You hear talk that Father X is drinking too much. There are incidents that are brought to the attention of his pastor or his fellow priest. Sometimes there are involvements with the civil law; there are peculiarities that are gossiped about, and no one really comes to a point of accusing or establishing or centering the full scientific data together in a computer‑like fashion to determine that when you get all these factors and all these digits, then you have an individual who can be classified an alcoholic. It is unfortunate that during the developing stages there are scarcely, and this is true, as you know, any priests who have the courage to take issue with a brother priest, except those who are always harping about the weaknesses of others anyway; and as you know, this is a very delicate question. As you approach it yourself today, you just don’t make a flat statement; you must be very diplomatic and very cautious. You say, “Joe, I think you are beginning to show signs of not being able to handle your liquor.” Usually the Bishop doesn’t see the early signs; he gets the full blown case before him. When it does come, I, as a Bishop cannot judge a man and say, categorically, you are an alcoholic. I wouldn’t say this of any individual. I may tell a man what is on the record, that there have been incidents of drunkenness and neglect of duty, and scandal, and that they arise from excessive imbibing, but never would I feel in a position to be a judge and tell the man that he is an alcoholic. He must do this himself.
 
debraran said:
“I may tell a man what is on the record, that there have been incidents of drunkenness and neglect of duty, and scandal, and that they arise from excessive imbibing, but never would I feel in a position to be a judge and tell the man that he is an alcoholic. He must do this himself.”
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Yes.However, at many AA meetings, and at many AA Central Offices, you can pick up a copy of what are known as the 20 Questions. While not perfect, they will give you an idea of how deep into alcohol the drinker has gotten.😦

( I am not sure it would be OK to post the 20 questions in this forum.):hmmm:
 
The bishops and cardinals were derelict in their responsibilities according to one Catholic author, George Weigel; he blamed them for the sexual crimes that occurred in the American Church. I think the same goes with clergy who abuse alcohol. Afterall, they are the stewards of the Church.

John
 
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