Alcohol and Marijuana

[AndreM73]

Hello all!

I don’t know if this belongs under the Social Justice thread, so if a mod could move it if it’s in the wrong place, that would be splendid.

I have a friend going to school in another state whose friends have been asking her questions like this:

“Why would Jesus turn water into wine when wine is an alcoholic beverage and can be abused?”

And this gem:

“If he can do that, then why couldn’t he have made pot appear instead?”

I have my own answers, but I would like some fresh perspectives before I respond.

As a side, both of us consider these the dumbest questions either of us have heard, but I will not comment further in that regard.

Thank you all, and God Bless!

-Andre

 

[Robert_Sock]

I honestly have no answers, and I doubt that others will either.

 

[GEddie]

Well, obviously He did not feel the same about pot as wine, because He never miraculously produced pot.

It should be obvious that smoking anything is counter to the design of our breathing systems. Not everything in nature is intended to be put into our human bodies.

ICXC NIKA

 

[Stephen_says]

1. Wine has a long history in Judaism being used for sacramental and ceremonial purposes, marijuana does not, so why would he?
2. The possibility of substance abuse does not make the substance evil, it is morally neutral, it is our approach to the substance that is evil. It is possible that the social aspect of drinking could make small amounts of consumption good, as in Mass.
3. What makes the abuse of a substance evil? It is seeking of an altered state of mind that makes it evil. It is possible to have a glass of wine and not become drunk. It takes such a small amount of marijuana to become high, that it is hard to argue that any amount of use would lead to good things.

That’s my thought, I don’t claim this to be the official church position

Peace

 

[Mickey_Finn]

1. He made wine appear because his Mother asked him to. Thus showing us how to be good sons. It’s on us to conduct ourselves in this world full of hazards and traps.
2. God did make marijuana appear. It’s all over the place if you haven’t noticed.

ATB

 

[captainrick]

Ridiculous. Then as now, people customarily drank wine at weddings. They ran out. He made more. Period.

 

[ServusHumilis]

It was Mary that asked Jesus to turn the water into wine. The purpose of the wine was for the wedding guests to wet their whistle and have a good time which is the reason for booze in a social setting; not for anyone to get drunk and stupid. Booze has the potential for abuse just as pot does. I don’t believe in ancient times whey would have smoked much of anything; heck the Europeans didn’t even know about tobacco until the late 1400s! The whole thing sounds like a mindless question asked by a pothead so I won’t bother to put any further thought into it.

 

[Midwest88]

As a side, both of us consider these the dumbest questions either of us have heard

Make that three. These questions are really modernists way of trying to play the “gotcha ya” card in order to prove that Christianity’s regulation and condemnation of certain ‘personal’ choices were silly, and therefore lending itself to a can of worms. They are trying to prove the slippery slope.

"If wine can be abused, and God made it, then so-and-so can equally be used without issue since it too can be abused as well because God making it … "

It’s like their instincts and common sense went out the door.

 

[Nelka]

Hello all!

I don’t know if this belongs under the Social Justice thread, so if a mod could move it if it’s in the wrong place, that would be splendid.

I have a friend going to school in another state whose friends have been asking her questions like this:

“Why would Jesus turn water into wine when wine is an alcoholic beverage and can be abused?”

And this gem:

“If he can do that, then why couldn’t he have made pot appear instead?”

I have my own answers, but I would like some fresh perspectives before I respond.

As a side, both of us consider these the dumbest questions either of us have heard, but I will not comment further in that regard.

Thank you all, and God Bless!

-Andre

Alcohol can be abused in the same way as fire can be abused, we wouldn’t like to have no fire especially 2000 years ago.

Why turn water into pot, people used to drink wine for refreshment, no Pepsi in those days. What use is pot unless used in a medial way?

 

[thinkandmull]

I don’t buy the argument that altered states are inherently wrong because they are against reason. Sleeping is a normal part of life. Not everything that seems logical is true either. Someone may find a type a wisdom in an altered state. Pot just gives you a taste of it and you are ever chasing it. Other psychedelics are more useful to bring a certain wisdom but can have terrible side effects. The Church has only condemned drugs that are definitely damaging

 

[Havard]

I don’t buy the argument that altered states are inherently wrong because they are against reason. Sleeping is a normal part of life. Not everything that seems logical is true either. Someone may find a type a wisdom in an altered state. Pot just gives you a taste of it and you are ever chasing it. Other psychedelics are more useful to bring a certain wisdom but can have terrible side effects. The Church has only condemned drugs that are definitely damaging

“Considering all the facts, it is irresponsible to consider cannabis in a trivial way and to think of it as being ‘a soft drug,’ that is, one without remarkable effects on the organism.” - Church: Drugs and Drug Addiction, Pontifical Council for Health Pastoral Care, 2001.

The preface is available on the Vatican website:

vatican.va/roman_curia/pontifical_councils/hlthwork/documents/rc_pc_hlthwork_doc_20011101_chiesa-droga-presentation_en.html

 

[GEddie]

I don’t buy the argument that altered states are inherently wrong because they are against reason. Sleeping is a normal part of life. Not everything that seems logical is true either. Someone may find a type a wisdom in an altered state. Pot just gives you a taste of it and you are ever chasing it. Other psychedelics are more useful to bring a certain wisdom but can have terrible side effects. The Church has only condemned drugs that are definitely damaging

Who said that sleep was an altered state? It is a periodic condition of the mind (and body) that is necessary to life.

An altered state, IIUC, is one that our bodies do not normally get into. Drugged states are such. Our bodies will fall asleep normally when they need to.

ICXC NIKA.

 

[Havard]

Who said that sleep was an altered state? It is a periodic condition of the mind (and body) that is necessary to life.

An altered state, IIUC, is one that our bodies do not normally get into. Drugged states are such. Our bodies will fall asleep normally when they need to.

ICXC NIKA.

I’d add to that, that it’s certainly possible to abuse sleep cycles and other natural bodily processes. A college roommate of mine used to tell me about how his friends messed around with over-hydration, which gave them feelings of giddiness, dizziness, and disorientation. But it can also lead to coma or death.

 

[Midwest88]

I don’t buy the argument that altered states are inherently wrong because they are against reason. Sleeping is a normal part of life. Not everything that seems logical is true either. Someone may find a type a wisdom in an altered state. Pot just gives you a taste of it and you are ever chasing it. Other psychedelics are more useful to bring a certain wisdom but can have terrible side effects. The Church has only condemned drugs that are definitely damaging

Oh my …

 

[Captain_America]

I tend to think that the reason alcohol hasn’t been/ wasn’t more restricted is simply because the ideas of

(a) the State having enough coercive force/ police power, to administer something like this was incomprehensible, in eras in which families made their own wines, and police power meant an occasion distant knight or two.

I don’t think we can really understand the criminology angle unless we accept that police power in 2015 is VASTLY more powerful than police power in 1890 or 1790 or 990, etc.

It wasn’t too long ago that women did not venture out at night, and the men that did carried “walking cane” clubs for protection.

(b) the idea of the State DOING social programs (like restricting alcohol use or manufacture) is VERY NEW. This is a matter of political ideology. Perhaps only in a modern democracy can we envision state power being put to public ends, rather than the ends of elites.

(c) the Social Sciences weren’t yet invented. The idea of “public health” or looking at overall social wellbeing from a methodical, quantitative perspective is very new.

SO, I think the notion of alcohol prohibition as a political and legal possiblity really is VERY NEW.

With respect to marijuana, the danger is similar to alcohol: it seems an innocuous pleasure. But it is more of a health-risk than cigarettes (which we’ve driven out of the public sphere largely, due to health concerns); it also spurs crime. Why NOT keep marijuana illegal? It seems the rational way to go here.

 

[JoeFreedom]

1. The possibility of substance abuse does not make the substance evil, it is morally neutral, it is our approach to the substance that is evil. It is possible that the social aspect of drinking could make small amounts of consumption good, as in Mass.

Exactly. Genesis 1:29: "Then God said, “Behold, I have given you every plant yielding seed that is on the surface of all the earth, and every tree which has fruit yielding seed; it shall be food for you;…”

I may be interpreting this incorrectly, but He is giving us all things for us to use. 1) Things are morally neutral, so how we use it matters. 2) We can use the marijuana plant for more things than smoking. The plant yields fibers that make it useful for many things. Some choose to smoke it (morally unacceptable) and some choose to use it for other purposes like clothing (morally acceptable).

 

[Captain_America]

Exactly. Genesis 1:29: "Then God said, “Behold, I have given you every plant yielding seed that is on the surface of all the earth, and every tree which has fruit yielding seed; it shall be food for you;…”

I may be interpreting this incorrectly, but He is giving us all things for us to use. 1) Things are morally neutral, so how we use it matters. 2) We can use the marijuana plant for more things than smoking. The plant yields fibers that make it useful for many things. Some choose to smoke it (morally unacceptable) and some choose to use it for other purposes like clothing (morally acceptable).

good point.