Alcohol and the Bible article, review this and help!

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Boxerdog

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Heres my problem, I have a friend who is a Baptist with interest in the Catholic faith. He beleives that there is nothing wrong with alcohol(he drinks) unless someone is a drunk, in which I agree.

He is going to get married this summer, but his Grandfather is a very strict baptist. We have talked about what the bible sayes about it in regards to the use of wine, basically I told him that if Jesus turned water into wine at Cana, then there is nothing wrong with moderate consumption. Why would Jesus use something that is wrong??

Anyways I came across the following article and I dont really know much about the source, but it does point out some great points in regard to Romans 14:21.

Please check this out , as I plan on sending it to my friend. If you have other articles please post them. thanks

chetday.com/alcoholandthebible.htmchetday.com/alcoholandthebible.htm
 
Please don’t tell me this is one of those articles that claims “fruit of the vine” means grape juice!!! That has been dis-proven time and time again. Besides Mr. Welch lived in the 1800’s, not the time of Jesus. The preservation process developed for grape juice was still 1800+ years away.
 
Boxer dog, where is the article?🙂 We can’t help, if we don’t see the article.

As has been mentioned before, Welch-yes the same company that makes grape juice- invented the process that keeps grape juice from fermenting in the late 1800’s. Before that there was no reliable way to do so.

Jesus not only consumed wine, but his first miracle was basically to keep the party moving on!👍
 
Over 10 million Americans, 10% of all adult drinkers, are estimated to be alcoholic.

this is from the article. Doesn’t that mean that 90% of Americans do not have a alcohol problem?

I will admit that the AMerican culture that we live in has a problem in how it views alcohol. Cultures in which drinking is seen as something that one does with their family around the dinner table have less alcoholism rates then we do. There are a lot of people in AMerica who view alcohol as something that one does to get drunk. This doesn’t make alcohol bad, but it does speak to a problem in our culture as to our peception of alcohol.
 
Are there two articles?

I liked what the author had to say. He reached a very good balance.

This is from the article.

However, if we truly believe that sin is moral, not cultural, then not only must we resist the temptation to drop our favorite sins from the list, we must also resist the temptation to add our current cultural problems to the list. We must admit that the converse of our axiom is also true: if something is a sin now, it was a sin in Jerusalem 30 AD Since the Bible doesn’t suggest that all use of alcohol was a sin during Biblical times, how can it be now? Adding sins to the list is strongly discouraged in the New Testament**.[15] Jesus was much more critical of religious people adding prohibitions to the burden of the common man than he was of sinners. He never called prostitutes, adulterers, or drunkards ‘vipers’**
 
NotWorthy said:
Please don’t tell me this is one of those articles that claims “fruit of the vine” means grape juice!!! That has been dis-proven time and time again. Besides Mr. Welch lived in the 1800’s, not the time of Jesus. The preservation process developed for grape juice was still 1800+ years away.
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that thought crossed my mind also, but the article that I clicked onto was very well balanced and did not say that all alcohol consumption was sinful.
 
deb1 said:
that thought crossed my mind also, but the article that I clicked onto was very well balanced and did not say that all alcohol consumption was sinful.
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I hope not – I just finished making 10 gallons of muscadine wine.😃

Does not Paul tell us not to drink so much water, but to take a little wine for the stomach’s sake?
 
When I was a protestant, there was plenty of debate on this topic in the circles I was in.

I actually gave a talk/sermon on the issue, which you can listen to here. It’s full of protestant lingo like constant references to “what the bible says”, “what the bible makes clear”, etc. 😉

The main book I used for some guiding principles was God Gave Wine by Kenneth Gentry, a reformed protestant.
 
RonRule said:
When I was a protestant, there was plenty of debate on this topic in the circles I was in.

I actually gave a talk/sermon on the issue, which you can listen to here. It’s full of protestant lingo like constant references to “what the bible says”, “what the bible makes clear”, etc. 😉

The main book I used for some guiding principles was God Gave Wine by Kenneth Gentry, a reformed protestant.
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Email me or sumpin and I’ll send you the notes from my talk if you’re interested (outline and manuscript).
 
Boxerdog,
I am having difficulty connecting your friend’s consumption of wine with his wedding and grandfather. Your friend is not Catholic, so I may assume he is not having a Mass, but is getting married in a Baptist church? If correct, and your friend is not ready at this time to come “home to Rome,” why is he making an issue of drinking wine at his reception? I think it would be nice to his grandfather to continue in the Baptist tradition and avoid alcoholic beverages for the day.
 
Jimmy,
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      Its an interesting situation. I have been talking to him for a year or so about the Catholic Church and its fullness compared to Baptists. He has fallen out of the Baptist Church because I think he feels that it is lacking and on many issues he doesnt agree with their theology.


   As for his grandfather, I think he is trying to juggle respecting him on his beliefs, yet he is his own man, therefore he wants to have alcohol at the reception. This whole thing may seem trivial to some, but I am trying to show him by way of the bible, that alcohol in moderation is normal and fine.
I just recently gave him a copy of Pillar of Fire, Pillar of Truth from CA.
 
Hello Boxerdog,

Mary asked Jesus to preform a miracle and make more wine because people were leaving the wedding party. When was the last time you were at a party and the people began to leave because you ran out of grape juice?

The waiter said that usually a host would serve the better wine first then the less desireable wine. I am thinking the reasoning is that after the crowd has had a few glasses of wine, it is no longer all that critical that the wine be the best in the house. You start feeding sober people bad grape juice after they have been drinking good grape juice, they are going to know it.

The grape juice argument, in regard to the wedding at Cana, is people trying to force the bible (Jesus) to say what they want it to say, rather than going to the bible to seek out the will of God.
 
Boxerdog,

I went through the argument over alcohol regularly when I attended a Southern Baptist college. A common argument is that “wine” in the Bible refers to grape juice, but Deuteronomy 14:26 is rather clear in referring to both “wine” and “strong drink” and allowing both of them at a feast.
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As Ecclesiastes 9:7 says, “Go, eat your bread with enjoyment, and drink your wine with a merry heart; for God has long ago approved what you do.” (NRSV). And 1 Timothy 5:23 “No longer drink only water, but take a little wine the sake of your stomach and your frequent ailments” (NRSV).
 
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