Alcohol Consumption Beliefs and Practice

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In the very ‘old’ days alcohol was the drink of choice because it was the safest drink!!

I am trying to get rid of the cold water in my house and have wine on tap!!! 😃
 
zaffiroborant said:
From your article:

I am quite uncomfortable with this view of alcohol, it paints Christ as meth cook. Christ made wine at the wedding, I’d stop way short of accusing Him of creating Satan’s tool.
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I don’t see the “meth cook” analogy, zaffiroborant, but I think I get the gist of what you are saying. There are positive biblical references to drinking wine, as in Jesus turning the water into wine, and Paul advising Timothy to take some wine for his stomach’s sake.
Why would Jesus turn the water into wine if it was bad? I agree with your point on that.

Wine continues to be a common drink in the Mediterranean area, as my wife and I found out when we were on vacation in Spain a couple of years ago. We have been partaking of it in limited quantities ever since.

There are also many negative references to strong drink and drunkenness in the Bible as referenced in the link I provided from the AOG website.

In my view, if someone can handle alcohol in limited quantities and not get drunk, I see no problem with that.

However, there are many people who think they can handle it who wind up turning into alcoholics and cause countless pain and anguish to their families and loved ones, as well as other innocents who die or are injured by drunk drivers or belligerent drunks who start fights when they imbibe and/or physically abuse their spouses and children when they drink.

If I could summarize the AOG position, it would be to warn that are more potential negatives from alcohol than positives, especially to the family – so why risk it?
 
signit said:
This is exactly what I was taught (Catholic mother, Protestant father).

Mom and Dad drank like responsible adults and taught me the same. In fact I was allowed to drink beer with Mom and Dad out of my child-size glass.

I firmly believe that the ones who come from families where it’s a “forbidden fruit” are the ones likely headed for trouble. I knew some early teens who thought it was cool to drink alcohol in the woods without their families knowing.
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Yep- my first alcohol was at roughly the age of 8 or so, and I seem to recall it was a small amount of white wine with orange juice. i think that connection between socialisation in an adult environment and alcohol served to do me well. Plus it meant from a young age my conversational skills were always very advanced.
 
signit said:
Mom and Dad drank like responsible adults and taught me the same. In fact I was allowed to drink beer with Mom and Dad out of my child-size glass.

I firmly believe that the ones who come from families where it’s a “forbidden fruit” are the ones likely headed for trouble. I knew some early teens who thought it was cool to drink alcohol in the woods without their families knowing.
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Spot on. I grew up in Wisconsin where, until just a few years ago, it was still legal for a child of any age to drink in a bar so long as his parents were present. That changed when Doyle and the Dems decided they knew better.
 
Tommy999 said:
If I could summarize the AOG position, it would be to warn that are more potential negatives from alcohol than positives, especially to the family – so why risk it?
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The problem with putting your foot down on a morally neutral ‘thing’ is - where should we stop? (I’m thinking alcohol, Internet, guns, anything that- sitting by itself, just is, until a human acts and abuses it, or uses it immorally)

At some point, if we don’t drop in ‘responsibility’, then we will end up finding we should all be living in caves, alone. There are just too many potential negatives outside and we can’t be expected to try and control ourselves!

Of course, this is besides the point that if someone is abusing alcohol, or anything that drifts the person from reality and their responsibilities (or into sin). They need help, and a part of that may come in the form of abstinence.
 
Tommy999 said:
I

If I could summarize the AOG position, it would be to warn that are more potential negatives from alcohol than positives, especially to the family – so why risk it?
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I don’t see that as a valid summary of the AOG position as they state specifically that alcohol is the Devil’s tool, where does that leave Christ since He made alcohol to be consumed by wedding guests?
 
My wife’s family is a mix Pentecostal and Methodist and none of them believe alcohol use has any place in a Christian life. The ones that do drink, however, seem to drink as if they are making up for everyone else’s abstinence. So in all honesty I’m not sure that teaching complete abstinence will be all that effective in preventing abuse. It’s almost as if responsible drinking is a skill that you have to learn.

I had started this thread because it was claimed in another thread that Catholics in general have much higher rates of alcohol abuse than Evangelicals who never abuse. I was hoping that the poster would back up that claim with something other than anecdotal stories.
 
Burt_Macklin said:
I had started this thread because it was claimed in another thread that Catholics in general have much higher rates of alcohol abuse than Evangelicals who never abuse. I was hoping that the poster would back up that claim with something other than anecdotal stories.
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Well, since Catholics outnumber evangelicals around the world, I would imagine there’d be higher rates, considering more humans are Catholic. However, from personal experience, I know many evangelicals who have at one point had way too much to drink. It’s not as cut and dry as that person may believe.
 
zaffiroborant said:
I don’t see that as a valid summary of the AOG position as they state specifically that alcohol is the Devil’s tool, where does that leave Christ since He made alcohol to be consumed by wedding guests?
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I believe that denominations that outlaw alcohol usually contend that Jesus transformed the water into grape juice rather than to wine. You’re right that if alcohol is the Devil’s tool then Jesus obviously could have no part in it.
 
zaffiroborant said:
I don’t see that as a valid summary of the AOG position as they state specifically that alcohol is the Devil’s tool, where does that leave Christ since He made alcohol to be consumed by wedding guests?
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I don’t think that wine by itself is evil. My wife and I have been partaking of it on occasion for the past couple of years with meals. I prefer a red Moscato myself. However, in light of my denomination’s teaching, I may need to revisit that.

Here are two more excerpts from the AOG article on that denomination’s belief on alcohol consumption that I have a hard time refuting.

*The Christian who advocates or condones “drinking in moderation” is providing Satan an opening he would not have with an individual committed to total abstinence.

… No alcoholic ever intended to become an alcoholic when he/she took the first drink. And no individual who persistently refused to take the first drink ever became an alcoholic.*
 
Tommy999 said:
I don’t think that wine by itself is evil. My wife and I have been partaking of it on occasion for the past couple of years with meals. I prefer a red Moscato myself. However, in light of my denomination’s teaching, I may need to revisit that.

Here are two more excerpts from the AOG article on that denomination’s belief on alcohol consumption that I have a hard time refuting.

*The Christian who advocates or condones “drinking in moderation” is providing Satan an opening he would not have with an individual committed to total abstinence.

… No alcoholic ever intended to become an alcoholic when he/she took the first drink. And no individual who persistently refused to take the first drink ever became an alcoholic.*
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Yikes! What I would be curious about is if there is anything that the church teaches where … ’ xxxxxxxx in moderation’ is recommended. If there is something, the obvious question is - why am I acting on behalf of the devil with alcohol, but not with xxxxxxx when staying consistent logically?

The second quote is probably accurate, and quite ‘captain obvious’. Not one person has died in Arizona who has never been to Arizona.
 
Burt_Macklin said:
I had started this thread because it was claimed in another thread that Catholics in general have much higher rates of alcohol abuse than Evangelicals who never abuse.
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Never? That alone points out that there is a problem. I’ve known many self-proclaimed Evangelicals who have fallen into alcoholism, but at that point, those within the "non"denomination then claim that person was never Christian in the first place. Same in the Baptist churches in my rural community.

Statistically, you’d also have to account for the fact that many folks will call themselves Catholic, when in fact they aren’t church-goers in the full sense. In order to compare apples to apples, the survey would have to include every non-church-goer who was previously Evangelical or Baptist, but no longer self-identifies as such because they don’t attend anymore.
Aslan10 said:
However, from personal experience, I know many evangelicals who have at one point had way too much to drink. It’s not as cut and dry as that person may believe.
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Exactly.
 
Although this is a serious thread, I would like to share the following joke I heard one time. Maybe some of you have heard it, too. It helps me keep things in perspective and not take myself too seriously.

There are three truths in life:
Jewish people do not recognize Jesus as the Messiah.
Protestants do not recognize the Pope as the leader
of the Christian faith.
Baptists do not recognize each other in the liquor store.
 
Tommy999 said:
The Christian who advocates or condones “drinking in moderation” is providing Satan an opening he would not have with an individual committed to total abstinence.

The problem with that reasoning is that it’s just as likely for Satan to use the opportunity of someone abstaining from alcohol to inflict them with hubris that they’ve managed to avoid alcohol, unlike those drinking sinners. Satan if, if anything, a master of the situation.
… No alcoholic ever intended to become an alcoholic when he/she took the first drink. And no individual who persistently refused to take the first drink ever became an alcoholic.
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This applies to just about anything that one could ever do. No one who ever took a bite of food ever became a glutton!
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I was raised southern Baptist, in our household alcohol was evil and had no place for Christians. Jesus didn’t turn water into wine like we know, it was “new wine” or, fermented wine. It never made sense, as back in the day people fermented things to preserve them, right? Needless to say as I fell away I picked up drinking, mostly at parties and stuff as I was young and that was “moderate drinking” then…

Now I am Catholic, and I was, not surprised, but still found it odd, the first time I went to a church social event and wine was served…now I’m an adult, and I do only drink the occasional glass of wine.

I don’t find there to be anything evil about a nice, dry red with dinner. However that sweet wine my MIL likes, there is something off about that stuff, maybe not evil, but it just isn’t right!
 
misspriss said:
I was raised southern Baptist, in our household alcohol was evil and had no place for Christians. Jesus didn’t turn water into wine like we know, it was “new wine” or, fermented wine. It never made sense, as back in the day people fermented things to preserve them, right? Needless to say as I fell away I picked up drinking, mostly at parties and stuff as I was young and that was “moderate drinking” then…

Now I am Catholic, and I was, not surprised, but still found it odd, the first time I went to a church social event and wine was served…now I’m an adult, and I do only drink the occasional glass of wine.

I don’t find there to be anything evil about a nice, dry red with dinner. However that sweet wine my MIL likes, there is something off about that stuff, maybe not evil, but it just isn’t right!
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My wife and I like a red or white Moscato wine on occasion with a meal. Not sure if it is the same one your MIL likes, but it is fruity tasting. We love it, but there are a variety of wines for a variety of tastes. It’s not for everyone but suits us just fine.
 
Tommy999 said:
My wife and I like a red or white Moscato wine on occasion with a meal. Not sure if it is the same one your MIL likes, but it is fruity tasting. We love it, but there are a variety of wines for a variety of tastes. It’s not for everyone but suits us just fine.
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Oh I was just attempting to be a little silly, I hope it didn’t come across as weird. Nothing wrong with fruity. Or sweet. I just prefer my wine as dry as it comes, everyone else in the family gets “sweet wine” and drinks it with ice cubes in it, which seems so odd to me. But we always joke about it amongst ourselves, I just had our friendly banter in mind when I wrote that, I didn’t mean to be serious or offend, I apologize!
 
misspriss said:
Oh I was just attempting to be a little silly, I hope it didn’t come across as weird. Nothing wrong with fruity. Or sweet. I just prefer my wine as dry as it comes, everyone else in the family gets “sweet wine” and drinks it with ice cubes in it, which seems so odd to me. But we always joke about it amongst ourselves, I just had our friendly banter in mind when I wrote that, I didn’t mean to be serious or offend, I apologize!
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You’re fine, misspriss. I’m glad you clarified, though because I sometimes misinterpret things (my bad). .

When my wife and I visited Spain a couple of years (she’s a Spanish instructor and had always wanted to visit Spain), wine was plentiful and relatively inexpensive so we had wine with meals like a lot of the locals did.

My problem was that I liked sangria so much because it tasted like fruit punch to me, and they brought a pitcher of it to our table one evening. I kept asking my wife to “pour me a little more punch” and before I knew it, she said I was real mellow, laid back, and very silly, which she enjoyed but I wound up needing to go back to the hotel immediately after dinner because I was not in very good shape to do our normal walking around that night.

After that night, I made sure to limit my intake ever since.
 
Tommy999 said:
You’re fine, misspriss. I’m glad you clarified, though because I sometimes misinterpret things (my bad). .

When my wife and I visited Spain a couple of years (she’s a Spanish instructor and had always wanted to visit Spain), wine was plentiful and relatively inexpensive so we had wine with meals like a lot of the locals did.

My problem was that I liked sangria so much because it tasted like fruit punch to me, and they brought a pitcher of it to our table one evening. I kept asking my wife to “pour me a little more punch” and before I knew it, she said I was real mellow, laid back, and very silly, which she enjoyed but I wound up needing to go back to the hotel immediately after dinner because I was not in very good shape to do our normal walking around that night.

After that night, I made sure to limit my intake ever since.
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Oh that sounds like something I would have done in that situation! I mean I’d be the one having to go back to the hotel. 😃
 
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