"All Things to All People" or opposite approach - and "red equals" sign controversy

[3DOCTORS]

Apologies in advance for starting another thread about the red equals sign on Facebook but it made me think again about two approaches that seem hard sometimes to discern between.

In 1 Corinthians Chapter 9, Verses 19-24, St. Paul writes:

19
7 Although I am free in regard to all, I have made myself a slave to all so as to win over as many as possible.
20
To the Jews I became like a Jew to win over Jews; to those under the law I became like one under the law–though I myself am not under the law–to win over those under the law.
21
To those outside the law I became like one outside the law–though I am not outside God’s law but within the law of Christ–to win over those outside the law.
22
To the weak I became weak, to win over the weak. I have become all things to all, to save at least some.
23
All this I do for the sake of the gospel, so that I too may have a share in it.
24

Then in Ephesians 5, he emphasizes that we should “take no part in the fruitless works of darkness” - I won’t post the entire chapter here for the sake of space; it’s easy enough to look it up.

Now obviously “take no part in” is meaning don’t participate in. But I think about how the verses above from 1 Cor 9 have been what I’ve done in my life with people of different religious and cultural backgrounds and even moral views than my own. Not that I imitate them in doing anything that’s against my morals, but that I have tried to “meet them where they are” in some way, shape or fashion.

In the current culture, though, it seems that polarization is no longer possible to avoid. One can blame the people who are living and promoting the lifestyles that are antithetic to our Catholic teachings and being not just open about it but demanding that others concede to their way of thinking and acting.

Not just picking on the liberals, and not just on homosexuals, either - I include things such as straights cohabitating, use and promotion of birth control and abortion as “women’s health”, etc. And on the “conservative” side we have folks blatantly arguing for the right not to follow Church guidance on issues of capital punishment or helping the poor enough.

Social media seems to intensify the polarization on all of these things.

I’ll leave it at this for now, hoping what I’ve posted is at least clear enough to be understood and begin a conversation. Others’ thoughts?

 

[Obsculta]

I have tried to concentrate on the “Judge not lest ye be judged” approach. I am not gifted with the gift of prophecy so I will leave the preaching (against sin) to those who have that gift, and beg Christ to let my actions be guided by love and non-judgment—which is a impossible without Christ!

I also think it is most important we as Christians begin to strive to discern Gods will and accept it. It may just be that God wants our world and/or the United States to become secular. He would have his reasons, and there may be many reasons other than judgment or chastisement. It should help us to know that the Church is blessed in persecution.

Not sure if that helped or further blurred the issue

 

[3DOCTORS]

I have tried to concentrate on the “Judge not lest ye be judged” approach. I am not gifted with the gift of prophecy so I will leave the preaching (against sin) to those who have that gift, and beg Christ to let my actions be guided by love and non-judgment—which is a impossible without Christ!

I also think it is most important we as Christians begin to strive to discern Gods will and accept it. It may just be that God wants our world and/or the United States to become secular. He would have his reasons, and there may be many reasons other than judgment or chastisement. It should help us to know that the Church is blessed in persecution.

Not sure if that helped or further blurred the issue

What I try to do is judge the behavior but not the person. I won’t refuse to call a sin a sin. Yes, there’s the objective and subjective thing about whether the person truly knows why something is wrong or not. And we have to take that into account in doing apologetics and evangelization with an individual.

But a person needs to have an informed conscience, and it’s a spiritual work of mercy to admonish sinners. We can do this in a caring and tactful way, though it takes practice and understanding. Praying for people is also good, and in some situations it’s the main thing one can do if they’re not ready or open to hear our reasoning.

Prayer should also be just as much a part of evangelization with those who will listen to speech; otherwise, we as evangelizers run the risk of taking pride and thinking we are doing the work through our eloquence and wit, rather than being instruments of God’s grace. I’ve never made this mistake myself (LOL).

I can’t see God desiring what’s happening in the U.S. so I guess we are not in agreement on that. Unless we are kind of saying the same thing but it’s a question of semantics in how we say it.

What I believe, as someone once said to me, is that “God is not an enabler.” In other words, He permits us to experience the consequences of our choices, and that’s how I view what’s happening in the U.S. and many other countries with “progressivism” becoming ever more dominant.

 

[3DOCTORS]

To sum up - it used to seem like a positive thing to be able to relate to such a wide variety of people and I felt fairly confident that even if they didn’t embrace the Catholic/Christian values I did, they respected me as an intelligent and decent person. But now it seems like I’m being asked to either capitulate and become one of them (i.e. “progressive,” “liberal,” whatever you care to call it), or we’re at odds and at some point the friendships will end, whether with drama and fireworks or just no further contact. I’ve tried to be diplomatic but it seems to no avail. There is a paradigm shift going on and I suspect I’m not the only one experiencing it within my social circle.

 

[MichaelHowling]

The church calls it a corporal work of mercy to admonish the sinner…to call sin a sin.

Do you know why we’re loosing this battle in the eyes of society…because we ourselves…the FOLLOWERS OF CHRIST ARE NOT ACKNOWLEDGING OUR OWN SIN AGAINST MARITAL LOVE!

Contraception, divorce, how married couples and whole families are not following the call to which the family is to symbolize: God in society ! (Love between married so strong it pours out life and all are united as one as is the trinity from which marriage and family flows in it’s “divine image”!).

I am very open on my stance to homosexuality …and I think it’s a good thing that we ALL do so…HOWEVER, we are targeting one sin against marriage and neglecting in the same voice to bring up or fix our own.

Lets just keep this in mind. AND …ive noticed…when people are getting flaired up around me about my decision to be against same sex “marriage”…and I bring up that we are all in this together and that I acknowledge the sin of the heterosexual…the argument usually goes much more peacefully because I am meeting them at the same level - that we are ALL responsible and liable for our actions…and all of them are dangerious to society, to the individual, and to the symbolism and reason for marital love AND a slap in the face to God.

Michael

 

[Obsculta]

To sum up - it used to seem like a positive thing to be able to relate to such a wide variety of people and I felt fairly confident that even if they didn’t embrace the Catholic/Christian values I did, they respected me as an intelligent and decent person. But now it seems like I’m being asked to either capitulate and become one of them (i.e. “progressive,” “liberal,” whatever you care to call it), or we’re at odds and at some point the friendships will end, whether with drama and fireworks or just no further contact. I’ve tried to be diplomatic but it seems to no avail. There is a paradigm shift going on and I suspect I’m not the only one experiencing it within my social circle.

Yes, this is noticeable. I think it’s been since the advent of the ‘new atheism’ and the anonymity of the internet that we have seen approach of mocking and the paradigm shift that we must abandon the faith and follow science, to “be cool or be cast out”.

A friend of mine recently asked me about Catholicism. I shared my heartfelt thoughts, convictions , doubts, weaknesses, etc., warts and all. I had to check with a priest if its ok to be that honest because I was afraid of sowing doubt. My friend appreciated my thoughts and agreed that he wants to be Catholic at heart but he said his wife is a pagan and she is more “christian than most Christians. She is loving, forgiving, tolerant, open minded.” His words. All I had for him is “God puts us in places so he can reach others through us.”

When I made a reference in my previous post about the world/US becoming secular I don’t mean God desires that, but He will allow it. And the Body of Christ will bloom and grow in such a harsh climate. It is simply for us to keep on keeping on.

There are plenty of reformed churches and manmade belief systems for people who want to move away from Gods way. And no doubt life will become very painful, difficult and frightening for we who stay with Christ. But all He asks us to do is the same as Gethsemane, to stay with me and pray.

As Michael said above, “we are all in this together.” We should pray for better outreach to others, maybe Archbishop Dolan is the right guy for the job. He seem to recognize the need to talk. We do need contemporary Thomas Merton’s to reach out to other ways of thinking, and to borrow from what little I have read of Benedict XVI’s passion for dialogue, we need to talk with Atheists and secularists as well as other believers in the God of Abraham. Not to prepare to surrender, but to talk. I think we need to reach across the aisle more in every facet of life today, from the public forum to politics. If we keep going the way we are will be a nation/world of rude children hurling rocks and insults at each other rather than talking.

 

[3DOCTORS]

The church calls it a corporal work of mercy to admonish the sinner…to call sin a sin.

Do you know why we’re loosing this battle in the eyes of society…because we ourselves…the FOLLOWERS OF CHRIST ARE NOT ACKNOWLEDGING OUR OWN SIN AGAINST MARITAL LOVE!

Contraception, divorce, how married couples and whole families are not following the call to which the family is to symbolize: God in society ! (Love between married so strong it pours out life and all are united as one as is the trinity from which marriage and family flows in it’s “divine image”!).

I am very open on my stance to homosexuality …and I think it’s a good thing that we ALL do so…HOWEVER, we are targeting one sin against marriage and neglecting in the same voice to bring up or fix our own.

Lets just keep this in mind. AND …ive noticed…when people are getting flaired up around me about my decision to be against same sex “marriage”…and I bring up that we are all in this together and that I acknowledge the sin of the heterosexual…the argument usually goes much more peacefully because I am meeting them at the same level - that we are ALL responsible and liable for our actions…and all of them are dangerious to society, to the individual, and to the symbolism and reason for marital love AND a slap in the face to God.

Michael

Thanks Michael, great post! I would add another item to your list, namely, the rise in the common expectation anymore that a couple will cohabitate if either a) they have decided to be an exclusive couple and/or b) they are engaged to be married.

@obsculta - thanks for clarifying - I wanted to make sure I was understanding you correctly and your latest post really helps.

 

[3DOCTORS]

Aaaaauuuugggghhhhh, a friend who didn’t have one up on Facebook before (as the profile pic) now has one! :banghead: Funny thing, this person assured me a few months ago they were not for gay marriage but just for civil unions. Uh-huh.