Allah’s witnessing alone is sufficient; needs no further witnessing

[sedonaman]

Mat 19:5-6.

Thank you.

 

[paarsurrey]

You say you love Jesus. Well then, ask yourself why He would die a painful death if other beliefs were equally pleasing to God.

Hi

We say that Jesus did not die a cursed and painful death on Cross.He migrated from Galilee towards East. He died a very peaceful and natural deathi at Mohallah Khanyar, Sirinagar, India. He is buried in a tomb there.

Perhaps you may like visiting the tomb of your Lord; no compulsion.

I love Jesus

Thanks

 

[swariffin]

Hi

We say that Jesus did not die a cursed and painful death on Cross.He migrated from Galilee towards East. He died a very peaceful and natural deathi at Mohallah Khanyar, Sirinagar, India. He is buried in a tomb there.

Perhaps you may like visiting the tomb of your Lord; no compulsion.

I love Jesus

Thanks

Are you sure that your ProphetMessenger Mirza Ghulam Ahmad made no further mistakes? He was mistaken twice to determine the tomb of Jesus.

 

[paarsurrey]

Are you sure that your ProphetMessenger Mirza Ghulam Ahmad made no further mistakes? He was mistaken twice to determine the tomb of Jesus.

Hi

If Jesus could make mistakes as a human being in his first coming; then naturally he may make mistakes in his SecondComing 1835-1908.

I love Jesus and his Second Coming1835-1908

Thanks

 

[paarsurrey]

Originally Posted by **sambos671: **

I don’t understand how you can preferance the Koran with regard to what Jesus actually said to that of the apostles. The apostles were there with him. Mohammed wrote the Koran almost 500 years later with no direct access to Jesus or Jersusalem (except in a vivid dream) Most historical studies go to the closest source. In this case it would be the Apostles rather than the prophet of Islam. Allah was never used by Christians and I’ve never read the Catholic bible you’re talking about but there are paraphrased bibles which is not the same thing as a translation.

Hi

I think it is not difficult to understand.

Muhammad never wrote or authored Quran. Allah read it to Muhammad through an angel and Muhammad memorized it by heart. OK

Allah’s witnessing as mentioned in Quran to this effect is acceptable to us the Muslims. Allah is All-Seeing and All-Observing; he knew what happened to Mary and Jesus. We have to accept Allah’s lone witnessing in this case.

I elaborate it further.

Mary conceived a child without the touch of a man; this has been mentioned in Quran by lone witnessing of Allah. We all Muslims therefore accept it only on witnessing of Allah, we don’t ask for any further witnessing, as it not required logically.

If we Muslims deny lone witnessing of Allah in the case of Mary, then we would be thinking like the Jews thought; and they held Mary in doubt, you know of.

I think it is now crystal clear to you; however you may believe what satisfies you most but with solid reasons, no compulsion.

I love Jesus and Mary

Thanks

 

[sedonaman]

Allah’s witnessing as mentioned in Quran to this effect is acceptable to us the Muslims. Allah is All-Seeing and All-Observing; he knew what happened to Mary and Jesus. We have to accept Allah’s lone witnessing in this case.

Would you displease Allah if you did not accept his “witnessing”?

 

[StevenFrancis]

Hi

We say that Jesus did not die a cursed and painful death on Cross.He migrated from Galilee towards East. He died a very peaceful and natural deathi at Mohallah Khanyar, Sirinagar, India. He is buried in a tomb there.

Perhaps you may like visiting the tomb of your Lord; no compulsion.

I love Jesus

Thanks

His life, painful death and resurrection are the point of His existence. Islam, it seems, has done worse than dismiss the Lord’s incarnation. It has acknowledged it, and then cheapened it. Portrayed it as void of meaning. A prophet is how he’s portrayed. He wasn’t a dime a dozen prophet. History is lousy with those. There was quite a bit more to the Lord’s incarnation on Earth.

I must also correct you. He is not entombed anywhere. He was assumed into Paradise. You won’t be finding a tomb, save for the one he rose out of in the resurrection.

May the Lord bless us all with a peaceful and charitable co-existence.

Steven

 

[sedonaman]

…Islam, it seems, has done worse than dismiss the Lord’s incarnation. It has acknowledged it, and then cheapened it. Portrayed it as void of meaning.

It’s even worse than that:

"If Islam Is True . . .

"God deceived billions of people by tricking so many people into believing that Jesus died.

"Why would God want people to believe that Jesus was dead when he really wasn’t? Such a deception would soon lead to the formation of Christianity.

“This is a difficult pill to swallow, yet Islam forces us to view the origin of Christianity in this way. If Islam is true, God deceives people who believe the prophets he sends. If Islam is true, God spreads false teachings until they become dominant in the world. If Islam is true, Jesus, the Messiah, was completely incompetent and should never have been sent by God, since Jesus’ life ended up leading more people astray than any other life in history. Because the Muslim view is at odds with any traditional understanding of God’s nature (including the Islamic understanding), Islam is an incoherent religious system, which should be rejected by all rational people. Islam has a poor and contemptible explanation for the origin of Christianity. If Islam is true, the existence of Christianity makes no sense at all.”

On the other hand,

"Christianity easily accounts for the rise of Islam. … Consider the following line of thought.

"If Christianity is true, then the following statements are also true:

(1) People can come to God only through Jesus Christ.
(2) Satan is a real spirit being who wants to keep people from God.

"If Satan wants to keep people from God, and if the way to God is through Jesus Christ, what would Satan’s highest priority be? To incite people to reject Christ, for this rejection is what keeps them separated from God.

"But how would Satan convince people to reject Christ? … [He] … would have to offer them a substitute for the truth (i.e., a religion that rejects what is necessary for salvation).

"Thus, if Christianity is true, we would expect Satan to inspire religions that reject Christ’s sacrificial death and resurrection, even though these religions may be similar to Christianity in other (non-essential) respects. Now let us see how Islam matches up with our prediction.

"The message of Islam is something like this: ‘Believe in God. Do good deeds. If you do enough of them, you’ll get to heaven. Respect Jesus, for he was a mighty prophet, who delivered God’s message to the children of Israel. Also believe that Jesus was born of a virgin, that he performed many miracles, and that he was the Messiah. But whatever you do, don’t believe that he died on the cross for your sins. And don’t believe that he rose from the dead. In fact, the worst possible sin you can commit is to believe that Jesus is the Son of God.’

“Notice that Islam rejects Christianity’s essential requirements for salvation while accepting certain other doctrines. For instance, Muslims are commanded to believe in God, but even Satan and his demons believe in God. Muslims are commanded to do good deeds, but all religions teach this. Muslims are allowed to believe certain things about Jesus (such as his prophet status and virgin birth), but these beliefs do not save a person. Yet when we come to beliefs that are essential for salvation – the deity of Christ, his death on the cross, and his resurrection from the dead – we find that Islam is violently opposed to these crucial doctrines. Islam, then, looks exactly like the religion we predicted that Satan would form, for it denies what is necessary for people to come to God.”

Ref: Deceptive God, Incompetent Messiah: What Islam Really Teaches About Allah and Jesus].

“There is an Is.”

 

[R_not]

Hi

I remain focused on the issues and not the persons. I have nothing in my heart except love for my fellow human beings; so I don’t take offence for what others write. I am interested to understand things which others believe whether they are JWs, Mormons, Protestants, and Atheists or for that matter if they are Catholics. My interest is primarily in improvement of my own self; with others to the extent that we are all linked in a human bond and cannot live in isolation.

Even earlier I had stated that there are situations in human life where there are no and there cannot be any other witnesses except the All-Seeing GodAllahYHWH, so naturally then God Allah YHWH is a lone Witness, and no other witnessing is required. This is a logical thing and repeatedly mentioned in Quran.

One such situation is when God Allah YHWH selects somebody for His conversation or Word of Revelation.

Like when God Allah talked to Jonah and gave him the Message to convey to the people. So there was no other Witness; but Jonah obeyed even if others didn’t listen to him and ridiculed.

Such is the case of Mary, one of the Virgins in my opinion, whom God selected and I quote here from Quran:

[19:17] And relate the story of Mary as mentioned in the Book. When she withdrew from her people to a place to the east,
[19:18] And screened herself off from them, then We sent Our angel to her, and he appeared to her in the form of a perfect man.
[19:19] She said, ‘I seek refuge with the Gracious God from thee if indeed thou dost fear Him.’
[19:20] He replied, ‘I am only a Messenger of thy Lord, that I may bestow on thee a righteous son.’
[19:21] She said, ‘How can I have a son when no man has touched me, neither have I been unchaste?’
[19:22] He replied, ‘Thus it is.’ But says thy Lord, ‘It is easy for Me; and We shall do so that We may make him a Sign unto men, and a mercy from Us, and it is a thing decreed.’
[19:23] So she conceived him, and withdrew with him to a remote place.

So there are no necessarily other witnesses required when GodAllahYHWH makes a conversation. I am only concerned with this principle; if you agree with it .

I think you agree. Don’t you?

I love Jesus and Mary as I do love Buddha and Krishna.

Thanks

here is the problem that I have with discussing islam as being legitimate. You are using the koran for your sources. It is only legitimate if you want to take out all this nonsense about it being an extension of Judaism and Christianity, and that allah is the God of Israel. None of that is true.

allah is nothing but mohammed’s alter ego. By adding allah mohammed was able to get away with murder, lust and sexual acts that even was prohibited by pagan religions, and other atrocities.

You need to prove that the Bible was corrupted because that is what the koran is based on and there has been absolutely no one to prove the Bible was corrupted. Just having mohammed say it doesn’t make it so. Sorry, but it doesn’t. mohammed couldn’t read or write, and he was a pagan brought up in his pagan religion until he was about 40. And to make islam a so called ‘Abrahamic’ religion he had to say the Bible was corrupted and negate the previous prophets and the message of the Bible.

And that right there negates the whole basis of islam.

1. Islam cannot be from God because the prophet of Islam, Muhammad, did not pass God’s first test for a prophet. Deuteronomy 18:21-22 tells us that God will authenticate those He sends as a prophet by having them perform signs. Muhammad gave no sign as required by God.
2. Islam cannot be from God because Muhammad’s teaching does not pass the second test God gave for a prophet. Deuteronomy 13:1-4 tells us that no prophet will bring a revelation that is in conflict with previous revelation. His revelation must agree with the previous revelation of God. Deuteronomy 13:1-4
3. (this is probably muslims hate Paul) Islam cannot be from God because it denies the Godhood of Jesus. In the Qur’an, Muhammad takes great pains to deny the deity of Jesus. It demeans Jesus and makes him just a man. In Philippians, Paul asserts that Jesus existed in the form of God.
4. Islam cannot be from God because Muhammad frequently changed his revelations to suit circumstances. The classic example is Muhammad’s teaching on drinking. When he was just beginning to teach, before Muhammad gained a significant following he said that it was alright to drink.
5. Islam cannot be from God because its appeal is to man’s lower nature rather than his higher nature. Compare the Biblical appeal of heaven to the Quranic appeal of heaven.
6. Islam cannot be from God because its morality is inferior to the morality taught by the New Testament. In examining the contradictions between the Bible and the Qur’an, we encountered Jesus’ teaching that we were to love and pray for our enemies while the Qur’an says to fight and kill your enemies. There is a tremendous gap in the standard of morality between the two standards. Which is more likely to be from God, the high standard of morality, or the low standard of morality?
7. Islam cannot be from God because it is based upon a document, the Qur’an, made after God said revelation was finished.
8. Islam cannot be from God because it is based upon the Qur’an which has internal contradictions. Any revelation from God will be consistent within itself. It will not contain internal contradictions. Since the Qur’an does contain internal contradictions, it cannot be from God, and any religion that is based upon it is not from God.
9. Islam cannot be from God because the Qur’an frequently contradicts the Bible.
10. Islam cannot be from God because it denies the crucifixion of Jesus.

 

[R_not]

And I should add that to prove that the Bible was corrupted means that someone has an original copy of it. So, produce that and show it to the Pope and other Church leaders, and also Protestant leaders along with Jewish leaders.

(I won’t hold my breath)

They should be able to do testing on it such as dating it back to the 1st centuries or even previous to that if they only have the Old Testament. Which would mean that they have nothing to prove the New Testament was corrupted. So, prove the Bible was corrupted.

 

[R_not]

Proverbs 30:5-6 “Every word of God is flawless; he is a shield to those who take refuge in Him. Do not add to his words, or he will rebuke you and prove you a liar.” (NIV)

Well, then we have this from the koran:

Sura 4:82: “Do they not ponder on the Qur’an? Had it been from other Than Allah, they would surely Have found therein Much discrepancy.”

One doesn’t have to ponder too long to find the discrepencies!

Types of Alleged Errors

Brief examples of the kinds of errors some people see range from the Qur’an contradicts itself in how many days God created the world, Christians do not think the Trinity is the Father, Son, and Virgin Mary, Jews never thought Ezra was the Son of God, to the mother of Jesus could not have lived 1,500 years to be the sister of Moses. The rest of this tract mentions:

· Beating and Restraining Women

· Internal Contradictions

· The Setting Sun of Islam

· Mohammed & French-Canadian Problems

· marrying your own father-in-law, and

· differences in basic tone and message.

These are just a few errors. The contradictions between the meccan and medina time periods are not even being discussed in this post.

Too many contradictions to be from a God - unless that god was mohammed’s alter ego who was overly concerned about mohammed’s sex life.

 

[sedonaman]

Which is more likely to be from God, the high standard of morality, or the low standard of morality?

Which is more likely to be from God, a command to love Him with your whole heart, mind, and soul, … or, to love Him out of fear ?

Which is more likely to be from God, the title “Father”, or no title to express such a relationship with man?

See: The Love Of God In The Qur’an and The Bible.

 

[R_not]

Which is more likely to be from God, a command to love Him with your whole heart, mind, and soul, … or, to love Him out of fear ?

Which is more likely to be from God, the title “Father”, or no title to express such a relationship with man?

See: The Love Of God In The Qur’an and The Bible.

For some reason I had a problem with that link. So, I tried to fix it, but it still doesn’t work - so here is the url and you can cut/paste it manually:

answering-islam.org/Gilchrist/love.html

 

[sedonaman]

And I should add that to prove that the Bible was corrupted means that someone has an original copy of it.

Let’s be fair and, in lieu of the Bible, say that it was God’s message that had been corrupted and that He dictated the Quran to Mohammed through the Angel Gabriel to correct the “corruption”.

This begs the question, “What had been corrupted?”

Since the Quran is purported to be the “perfect” word of God for all time, and our Islam apologists here won’t tell us, we have to examine the differences between the two doctrines for the answer to our question.

Jesus said, “Love and pray for your enemies.” Allah [through Mohammed] said to fight and kill your enemies. Jesus’ invocation to love your enemies was still in effect at the time of Mohammed, as it is today. Therefore, somewhere in the distant past between Abraham and Jesus there was some general command or other to fight and kill your enemies. Where is the evidence of it?

 

[paarsurrey]

Originally Posted by paarsurrey:
Allah’s witnessing as mentioned in Quran to this effect is acceptable to us the Muslims. Allah is All-Seeing and All-Observing; he knew what happened to Mary and Jesus. We have to accept Allah’s lone witnessing in this case.

Would you displease Allah if you did not accept his “witnessing”?

Hi

Yes.Why should I not accept Allah’s witnessing about Mary conceiving a child without mating with a man? I don’t see any good reason.

Thanks

 

[R_not]

Let’s be fair and, in lieu of the Bible, say that it was God’s message that had been corrupted and that He dictated the Quran to Mohammed through the Angel Gabriel to correct the “corruption”.

This begs the question, “What had been corrupted?”

Since the Quran is purported to be the “perfect” word of God for all time, and our Islam apologists here won’t tell us, we have to examine the differences between the two doctrines for the answer to our question.

Jesus said, “Love and pray for your enemies.” Allah [through Mohammed] said to fight and kill your enemies. Jesus’ invocation to love your enemies was still in effect at the time of Mohammed, as it is today. Therefore, somewhere in the distant past between Abraham and Jesus there was some general command or other to fight and kill your enemies. Where is the evidence of it?

Well, before we start - the word ‘enemy’ is redefined in islam. An ‘enemy’ can be as simple as what we do on these threads - discussing islam/mohammed/allah and rejecting islam. Basically, telling the truth about islam which is a major offense in islam, or sharia law.

And so is ‘war’. War is ‘opening up the world to islam’ and so all the atrocities of war are meaningless to muslims - unless their ‘enemies’ defend themselves and strike back. See item #1 in the website I post in the next sentence.

I just posted on that point in this post. See point number #3.

One cannot discuss islam until we all get on a level ‘playing field’. It is enough to give one a headache - because you have to go back and forth between good and evil - and good (being bad - or showing weakness) and evil (being good and showing strength). did that make sense?

 

[sedonaman]

I asked

“Would you displease Allah if you did not accept his ‘witnessing’”?

You replied,

Yes.

So not all beliefs are pleasing to Allah, and equating all religions, which is what you did in an earlier post, would be a heresy to Allah. Therefore, indifferentism is a heresy. Quod est demonstratum.

So, you see? No need to quote Jesus at all. All I needed to do was quote your own words back to you.

 

[morning_star777]

Hi

Ahura Mazda is the name of God in Zoroastrian religion. I love God whatever good name a people give him; He is to be recognized by His attributes.

Thanks friend

Hi pal,I think your religion is a new religion named “secular religion” correct? .Or are you trying to follow “Din e Ilahy” of Emperor Akbar?

PS.Please do not mind,just joking

 

[paarsurrey]

Hi pal,I think your religion is a new religion named “secular religion” correct? .Or are you trying to follow “Din e Ilahy” of Emperor Akbar?

PS.Please do not mind,just joking

Hi

Nevermind.

I am not a scholar; I am just a man in the street, who wants to know the truth. I have no claim to piety, I am not innocent. I have made no new religions; discussions with friends and brothers in humanity make no new religions.

You may check my beliefs with the official Ahmadia website; I am a peaceful Ahmadi Muslim, and an ordinary follower of the SecondComing 1835-1908. I give hereunder the website menitioned above:
alislam.org/

I love Jesus and Mary

Thanks

 

[morning_star777]

Hi

Nevermind.

I am not a scholar; I am just a man in the street, who wants to know the truth. I have no claim to piety, I am not innocent. I have made no new religions; discussions with friends and brothers in humanity make no new religions.

You may check my beliefs with the official Ahmadia website; I am a peaceful Ahmadi Muslim, and an ordinary follower of the SecondComing 1835-1908. I give hereunder the website menitioned above:
alislam.org/

I love Jesus and Mary

Thanks

Yup,I know that Ahmadyas are really good people.And I always wanted to know about ahmadi beliefs but I had not any link or book about Ahmaddya belief…So thank you for this Link.God bless you.