America's One Child Per Family Policy

[cthulhubryan]

Lifestyle is certainly a part of it. We need to reject the modern notion that 2,500SF, central air, cable TV, two cars, half acre lot, airline vacations, cell phones, 3 year computer life, etc are normal and expected parts of the American lifestyle.

Historically, nobody had all these things and somehow, many people wound up happy anyways. Nobody can blame a politician from either party for these expectations Americans have developed.

Too true. This is truly what Freedom of Choice is. We choose to not have central air. We choose to drive to a vacation instead of fly. We choose to have basic cable instead of movie channels. We choose to eat at home most of the time instead of always dining out.

Aborting children is murder, not choice. Sacrificing a few material comforts while still providing a loving family is choice.

 

[maryjk]

I was shaking my head at that too. (But it’s the FMLA not HIPPA

And that would make sense. Must not have been thinking.

Exalt:

The more people have access to contraception and the more they feel they can support a child if the opportunity should arise - the less abortions will happen.

There is not a woman in the US that doesn’t have access to contraception. Planned Parenthood hands it out for free. Schools hand out contraception. Everyone has access to contraception, if they wanted to look for it. You do not have to have free medical care to have access to contraception. We could also tell girls that they are worth more than a boy that wants them for just one thing. Nothing like handing a girl contraception and telling her to wait.

turtle18:

Honestly, most Americans only have one child today due to selfishness,–they may claim it is economics but that argument breaks down when you see what they are spending their money on.

I know we are on the same side here, but not all couples that have one child do it for selfish reasons. Some of us claim, not economics, but health issues. Some of us don’t drive SUVs, don’t buy every toy in the store and some of us don’t have child care expenses because some of us are stay at home moms.

 

[MarieVeronica]

and in a capitalist society bankruptcy=failure.

Sadly, this is reality in America. :sad_yes: All the more reason that we need to get back to true Judeo-Christian principles and practices.

Where have our priorities gone? Are we more interested in next years “Lexus”? Or in saving the lives of the innocent unborn, the forgotten elderly and the marginalized disabled?

 

[manualman]

Exalt, I don’t have the link, but I recall Guttmacher itself acknowledging that the low abortion rate in the Clinton years was entirely due to demographics: the peak abortion demographic years was Gen X during the Clinton presidency. As a Gen X myself, I know darn well there just are a lot fewer of us than the Boomers or Gen Yers.

If Obama has the guts to admit how much ‘foreign aid’ gets used for abortion Imperialism abroad (after he kills the Mexico City policy), let’s talk again. Personally, I doubt he’ll be transparent on that little budget line item. You watch.

 

[mpi]

Not a typo, I didn’t mean China.

Also not scaremongering about Obama and the possible abuse of FOCA.

Rather, an observation on the way America’s free market policy creates conditions which function no different from China’s centrally controlled government in restricting childbirth.

• Cost of giving birth in an American hospital ranges from around $3,000 with insurance to around $14,000 without it.
• American companies are only legally required to provide 1 month of maternity leave for workers.
• Average cost of a (public) college education in America is $13,000 a year and rising.
• Average holiday entitlement for full-time American workers is 10-12 days.
• Average cost of child daycare in America ranges from $3,000 to $13,000 a year. This can amount to 30% of average income for a single parent.

What are the consequences of all of these policies taken together with the rising cost of living and the almost universal need for blue collar and low-grade white collar workers to run a two-income household in order to pay the bills? What does it mean except that unplanned pregnancy=bankruptcy, and in a capitalist society bakruptcy=failure. The result - high rates of abortion are as inevitable in America as they are in China. These statistics are further borne out by the direct link that can be observed between abortion and high cost of living (the North East urban states 482 abortions per 1000 live births in New York, as opposed to 80 per 1000 in South Dakota and Idaho).

Just as in China, these women are having forced abortions. That’s not choice, that’s not something that anyone apart from merciless venture capitalists can support, it’s certainly not something any loving family can support. This is the kind of thing, in the new post-Bush political climate, that pro-life AND honest pro-choice campaigners can unite against, and the result will be to drive down the numbers of abortions, and to drive down public support for abortion.

Regardless of who does it and how they do it, whether it’s the Republicans with their support for legal restrictions on Abortion or Obama’s Democrats with their plans for a fairer, more caring economic and healthcare system, someone has got to do something about America’s one child per (average income) family policy.

Just as we acknowledge that the Chinese government has the power to end its’ repressive pro-abortion policy, so the American government has the power to end its’ tolerance of this heartless pro-abortion culture. The free market certainly isn’t going to do it for us!

This isn’t a ‘Obama’s really pro-life if you think about it’ post. I’m not saying that I support him, so please don’t flame me with radical Republican replies, all I’m doing is pointing something out that’s essential to bear in mind in the fight against abortion.

What evidence do you have that more socialist nations (with a greater social safety net) have fewer abortions?

None.

 

[DL82]

What evidence do you have that more socialist nations (with a greater social safety net) have fewer abortions?

None.

Actually, I’ll admit my mistake, I looked up some more statistics and found that they were much less conclusive than I’d expected.

The average abortion rate in Sweden, which has an excellent health and welfare system, is around 25%, and in America it’s between 23 and 25% according to the CDC. The Washington Post reported that among teenage mothers, there were 29 abortions per 1000 teenage girls in America, compared to only 10 per 1000 in France, however, there were 83 pregnancies per 1000 among American teenagers, compared to only 20 per 1000 among French teenagers, so you can read those statistics both ways (more live births, but also more abortions, in America).

It seems pretty equal both ways.

There is a lot more difference between America and Sweden than just its’ healthcare system though - extreme secularism for a start - so it’s facile to say that better healthcare doesn’t decrease abortion. America wouldn’t turn into Sweden just because there were free hospital births. It’s about saying we CAN build a better society, not copying Europe, but following God’s plan.

 

[sscholl]

If you look at the tendencies in Europe over the past 50 years the birth rate declined as a “need to help control the population growth”. Now a number of countries don’t even have populations to replace the people who are dying. In France alone there was a -3% population growth in the past few years. As land has become available with not enough people within the country to buy it there is increased immigration that has resulted in on-going cultural changes that include a decrease in Christianity and increase in Islam. While that is not the only reason that Islam is on the increase in Europe it does play a part.
In China the one child policy has given way to other issues. In their culture the son takes care of the parent so many people wanted to have only sons and would abort daughters, or sell them etc. Now there is an epidemic of people stealing girls as they have such a shortage of them.
It is not just about having only one child to "protect the standard of Living people enjoy’, it is more about not looking at ways to protect the unborn and being unfaithful to the Lord. In our times we have more and more people being unable to have children and fertility clinics are making money hand over fist while in many cities so are the abortion clinics. Our laws on adoption are so strict that often people have a difficult time getting approved due to age or other factors.
Having said that I raised 4 children and so far all of my children but one have more than 1 child in their families. We had little money and when I have told my children I wished I could have done more for them all of them replied that they had not needed any more than they got. They enjoyed the closeness of having siblings.

 

[jilly4ski]

President Obama has a plan for all but one of your points. You can find more information on www.whitehouse.gov

.

President Obama plans a $4,000 tax credit for college students willing to do 100 hours of community service. I definitely agree, however, that we ought to do more than just this. Read more:

whitehouse.gov/agenda/education/

When I read this I laugh and laugh
A tax credit for college students, who don’t even pay taxes much less close to $4000 worth.
I just hope the gov. doesn’t use this as an argument for improving the economy or promoting college attendance.

 

[mpi]

Actually, I’ll admit my mistake, I looked up some more statistics and found that they were much less conclusive than I’d expected.

The average abortion rate in Sweden, which has an excellent health and welfare system, is around 25%, and in America it’s between 23 and 25% according to the CDC. The Washington Post reported that among teenage mothers, there were 29 abortions per 1000 teenage girls in America, compared to only 10 per 1000 in France, however, there were 83 pregnancies per 1000 among American teenagers, compared to only 20 per 1000 among French teenagers, so you can read those statistics both ways (more live births, but also more abortions, in America).

It seems pretty equal both ways.

There is a lot more difference between America and Sweden than just its’ healthcare system though - extreme secularism for a start - so it’s facile to say that better healthcare doesn’t decrease abortion. America wouldn’t turn into Sweden just because there were free hospital births. It’s about saying we CAN build a better society, not copying Europe, but following God’s plan.

Where in Catholic doctrine does it say that getting “free” healthcasre is God’s plan? In JPII’s encyclical Centesimus Annus, he condemns the welfare state because it leads to a breakdown of the family. Have you heard of the Catholic principle of subsidiarity?

I think that what you think is Catholic teaching and Catholic values is actually not Catholic values at all.

 

[AHapka]

• American companies are only legally required to provide 1 month of maternity leave for workers.
• Average cost of a (public) college education in America is $13,000 a year and rising.
• Average holiday entitlement for full-time American workers is 10-12 days.

Actually, American companies aren’t required to provide any maternity leave unless they have more then 50 employees. Then it’s up to twelve weeks, but not legally required to be paid.

Usually only large companies give holidays off with pay. Such companies usually provide the following:

New Years day
Memorial day
Fourth of July
Labor day
Thanksgiving and friday after
Christmas Eve and day
New Years eve.
If you work for a small business, you’ll likely not get them off. If you do, it’s usually unpaid. So it’s not exactly right to say that all full time workers get them off.

The average college cost may be $13,000 a year but it can be done for less. Community college for the first two years, then transferring to a larger college. Going to a nearby or state school can often be half as much as that figure.

 

[apromisemade]

Oh for heavens sake, this is really rather ridiculous.

I’m sorry, but I have little patients for such people that say “If this person gets into office or this policy is enacted, next thing you know…Barbie dolls will come to life and eat our children!”

Unlike China, we are not a dictatorship. India has been thinking about a one-child policy but has never been able to implement it because they, believe it or not, are a democracy, as are we. If something needs doing in China, the bureacracy simply snaps their fingers and it’s done.

For example, I’d like to see America attempt to implement a law that says cars with blank license plate numbers cannot be driven on blank day to help deal with pollution. The birthrate is going down in developed countries because people are choosing to have fewer kids. And the birthrate has been proven to go down in under-developed countries when access to quality education is improved because begin to focus on quality rather than quantity.

Quit fear mongering and look at the facts. There is about as much chance of a one-child policy being enacted in America as of me sprouting wings and flying to france in a day.

 

[DL82]

Oh for heavens sake, this is really rather ridiculous.

I’m sorry, but I have little patients for such people that say “If this person gets into office or this policy is enacted, next thing you know…Barbie dolls will come to life and eat our children!”

Unlike China, we are not a dictatorship. India has been thinking about a one-child policy but has never been able to implement it because they, believe it or not, are a democracy, as are we. If something needs doing in China, the bureacracy simply snaps their fingers and it’s done.

For example, I’d like to see America attempt to implement a law that says cars with blank license plate numbers cannot be driven on blank day to help deal with pollution. The birthrate is going down in developed countries because people are choosing to have fewer kids. And the birthrate has been proven to go down in under-developed countries when access to quality education is improved because begin to focus on quality rather than quantity.

Quit fear mongering and look at the facts. There is about as much chance of a one-child policy being enacted in America as of me sprouting wings and flying to france in a day.

Did you actually read any of this thread before posting? The first thing I said was that this was NOT scaremongering about Obama.

Instead, my point was that America, by allowing the market to control every aspect of society without any concern for support for human values, America has created conditions where it’s almost impossible to afford to have a large family, and especially difficult to cope with unplanned pregnancy - in effect, a one child or a no child policy for the poor and the lower middle class majority.

 

[mpi]

Did you actually read any of this thread before posting? The first thing I said was that this was NOT scaremongering about Obama.

Instead, my point was that America, by allowing the market to control every aspect of society without any concern for support for human values, America has created conditions where it’s almost impossible to afford to have a large family, and especially difficult to cope with unplanned pregnancy - in effect, a one child or a no child policy for the poor and the lower middle class majority.

How you can say this about the land of liberty and freedom is beyond me. Perhaps your economic prospects and your lifestyle choices mean that it will be DIFFICULT (not impossible) for you to afford a large family. So be it. I can afford my large family BECAUSE I am in the USA.