An Address to Catholics - "Outside the Church" and What It Means

  • Thread starter Thread starter tabsie3210
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
T

tabsie3210

Guest
Hi all. This is a little bit of a rant, but mostly an essay, directed at other Catholics. I’m concerned about their feelings toward the body of this essay. As such, I’d really like if all replies had to do with exactly what is said, and not with the argument of who is saved and not saved. Please respect that request, and thank you very much!

Now then:

Excuse my presumptiveness, but I think Catholics need to be reminded that, “outside the Church,” is not a call to despair or anger. And it certainly is NOT a call to cast out the belief in Hell. I speak as a cradle Catholic with a Jewish mama and a pagan best friend - we who are Catholic are called to BE the Church for everyone who is not. This is a blessing, not a curse.

If I may vent my frustration, I find that Catholics who sit and piddle about, “can my atheist grandfather still get into Heaven?” or, “what qualifies as ‘invincible ignorance?’” are totally missing the point! The point is, ANYBODY can get into Heaven, provided he is a Catholic. People will not be Catholic if there is no Church to lead them on the right way. And God will not fail to give everyone ample opportunity, even on their death beds, to become Catholic, particularly if other faithful Catholics are praying for and working for their salvation.

Instead of rejoicing that God is merciful enough to give Catholics tools like the Rosary, the Chaplet of Divine Mercy, the Prayer to the Shoulder Wound of Christ, and the intercession of the saints and the martyrs, we sit around and complain that hell is “unfair,” or that people who suggest others might go to hell are either being “judgmental” or “uncharitable.” Uncharitable!

It’s uncharitable to deny the reality of Hell! It’s uncharitable to avoid praying like crazy for someone, especially someone you love. It’s uncharitable to fail to trust in God’s Mercy, and it’s VERY uncharitable to assume that God’s mercy is a “get out of Hell free” card.

If one doesn’t have the talent for apologetics or theological discussion, that doesn’t excuse one from his duties to preach the Gospel. I’m not an apologist - I have tried to instruct my pagan best friend, and failed. Therefore, my duties to her include constant prayer, frequent Penance, and living as close to a perfectly Catholic life as I can. It means being in FULL communion with the Holy Catholic Church. It means trusting Christ to give me and my friend the Grace we need to accept His forgiveness and His Crucifixion. It also means that I never stop trying to bring her around.

Catholics are afraid that if we suggest that Hell is real, we’ll look bad - we’ll look like we’re being bullies, trying to force people to accept a religion that they don’t want. We’re afraid that we’ll look judgmental, like we’re hateful to anybody who is unlike us. And, I think, we’re afraid that our friends might not get into Heaven - or that WE might not!

These fears are unfounded, but most importantly, they betray our lack of trust in God. Didn’t the angel Michael teach the children at Fatima prayers for the salvation of the world? Didn’t Christ Himself give the Chaplet of Divine Mercy to St. Faustina, with the promise that now is His hour of Mercy? Why don’t we pray more? Why don’t we worry less about legalities concerning invincible ignorance and trust in God as a child does, with thankfulness and fearlessness? Why don’t we try to live better, more Catholic lives, now?

To tell you the truth, nothing has made me want to be a better Catholic so much as wanting to work for the salvation of others. Yes, if I’m in communion with the Church and believe in Her Dogma, and strive to never commit mortal sin, I may be saved. Yet, more than for myself, I want to be a good Catholic so I can make others good Catholics. Even if I don’t see the results of my actions until after my death, I will be content to know that I brought at least one person to God.
 
Why isn’t the divine mercy chaplet mentioned in the bible ?
by the way, you can’t really “work for the salvation of others”
Everyone is supposed to work out their own salvation with fear and trembling.
THAT is in the bible!
 
It’s a pretty good essay, except the last line. YOU or I do not bring anyone to God. We can help and be supportive but it is essentially an act of the Holy Spirit and their willingness.
 
To tell you the truth, nothing has made me want to be a better Catholic so much as wanting to work for the salvation of others. Yes, if I’m in communion with the Church and believe in Her Dogma, and strive to never commit mortal sin, I may be saved. Yet, more than for myself, I want to be a good Catholic so I can make others good Catholics. Even if I don’t see the results of my actions until after my death, I will be content to know that I brought at least one person to God.
I feel almost the exact same way–except in the opposite direction— I too am a cradle catholic. However, since my studying history, philosophy, and other various subjects in a variety of university and other settings over several years, I concluded that religion in general and the RC religion in particular is a collage of superstitious dogmas, founded on a mix of legend and anchient pagan systems. I also have concluded that in its most virulent form, religion is pernicious and should be discarded in favor of more a more civilized, saner and humanitarian basis for ethical behavior. Hence, I too would like to bring more to my belief system. Alas, I doubt, however, I will ever convert you.
 
Very good essay with a much-needed message.

In our society, it is becoming increasingly politically incorrect to evangelize or to suggest that one religion might be better than another (i.e., that Christianity is the only true faith). Unfortunately, I think that many Catholics have succumbed to that mentality and consequently are afraid to share their faith. And that is tragic, because the Church’s whole mission is to bring people to Christ.

There’s a whole world out there who is lost and dying and and on their way to hell. Instead of worrying about whether they have sufficiently invincible ignorance, let’s follow the example of the early Church and “preach the gospel to every creature.”
 
James 5:20 remember this: Whoever turns a sinner from the error of his way will save him from death and cover over a multitude of sins.
To tell you the truth, nothing has made me want to be a better Catholic so much as wanting to work for the salvation of others.
It is exactly the same with myself. A finite life is well spend if it only saves, in all its efforts - one eternal soul.
 
There’s a whole world out there who is lost and dying and and on their way to hell. Instead of worrying about whether they have sufficiently invincible ignorance, let’s follow the example of the early Church and “preach the gospel to every creature.”
How do you know they are “on their way to hell” do you get a front and center seat ?
 
Why isn’t the divine mercy chaplet mentioned in the bible ?
by the way, you can’t really “work for the salvation of others”
Everyone is supposed to work out their own salvation with fear and trembling.
THAT is in the bible!
As stated in the first like, I was addressing Catholics concerning what we are called to do and how we can look at the idea of “outside the Church” etc.

As you are not a Catholic (at least, I don’t see you identified as one), and are not responding to the essay, I would like to ask that you please re-direct your comments to the essay at hand, rather than derailing the topic.

Thank you.
 
It’s a pretty good essay, except the last line. YOU or I do not bring anyone to God. We can help and be supportive but it is essentially an act of the Holy Spirit and their willingness.
At the same time, we’re required to spread the word - just this past Sunday, the Gospel was about Jesus sending the 72 Disciples to preach the Good News. While everyone has free will and the Holy Spirit is Who pours Grace out so that people can become Catholics, we’re called to be the light.

I agree, people are going to exercize their free will and may condemn themselves out of that free will, but if I’m called to be the Church for someone, then it’s my duty to help bring others to God. 🙂

No disagreement, no complaint. Just explaining in further detail what I meant. Naturally, you’re right, it’s a matter of free will and God’s Grace, but everyone is everyone else’s keeper as well, that’s all I meant.

…I hope that made more sense than I think it did. 😦
 
tabsie3210;6807910:
To tell you the truth, nothing has made me want to be a better Catholic so much as wanting to work for the salvation of others. Yes, if I’m in communion with the Church and believe in Her Dogma, and strive to never commit mortal sin, I may be saved. Yet, more than for myself, I want to be a good Catholic so I can make others good Catholics. Even if I don’t see the results of my actions until after my death, I will be content to know that I brought at least one person to God.
I feel almost the exact same way–except in the opposite direction— I too am a cradle catholic. However, since my studying history, philosophy, and other various subjects in a variety of university and other settings over several years, I concluded that religion in general and the RC religion in particular is a collage of superstitious dogmas, founded on a mix of legend and anchient pagan systems. I also have concluded that in its most virulent form, religion is pernicious and should be discarded in favor of more a more civilized, saner and humanitarian basis for ethical behavior. Hence, I too would like to bring more to my belief system. Alas, I doubt, however, I will ever convert you.
As you are neither Catholic, nor responding to the body of my essay, I would like to ask that either you refrain from responding to my posts in the future, or else stay on topic - i.e. how Catholics should respond to the statement “outside the Church etc.” - rather than derailing the topic.

Thank you for understanding.
 
Very good essay with a much-needed message.

In our society, it is becoming increasingly politically incorrect to evangelize or to suggest that one religion might be better than another (i.e., that Christianity is the only true faith). Unfortunately, I think that many Catholics have succumbed to that mentality and consequently are afraid to share their faith. And that is tragic, because the Church’s whole mission is to bring people to Christ.

There’s a whole world out there who is lost and dying and and on their way to hell. Instead of worrying about whether they have sufficiently invincible ignorance, let’s follow the example of the early Church and “preach the gospel to every creature.”
Exactly!

Also, remember that St. Francsis of Asisi once said, “Preach daily! If necessary, use words!”

Therefore, the most important method of preaching is daily life, by living the Gospel. So, even those who feel they are unable to apologize effectively should remember that by living their faith, they are preaching with more effectiveness than by standing on a street corner shouting. This should be a sense of strenght to all Catholics, not something to fear.
 
You can see the fantasies that WmJackP has got himself into in the threads *Observations by a non believer *, and *The influence of Christianity *.

A strange, wandering soul, unable to accept reality.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top