An altar without a tabernacle

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one of the catholic churches in my city recently was remodeled. Now the altar no longer has the eucharistic tabernacle present. The tabernacle is housed in the adoration chapel within the church but not visible from the pews. Is this an affront to the eucharist?
 
Only if no one comes to do proper adoration to our Lord in the chapel . . .

(Architecturally, no, it is not an affront. Not *my *favorite form, but I don’t like a lot of things . . .)
 
one of the catholic churches in my city recently was remodeled. Now the altar no longer has the eucharistic tabernacle present. The tabernacle is housed in the adoration chapel within the church but not visible from the pews. Is this an affront to the eucharist?
The tabernacle “historically” resided at the back of the main altar. For several decades now, they are often found off to the side, or in a small chapel. Several priests I have talked to have explained that the “off to the side” or in a chapel is actually proper.

This is often a subject of great debate here at CAF.

TBL
 
Several priests I have talked to have explained that the “off to the side” or in a chapel is actually proper.
Not according to the new GIRM of 2002 (approved by the NCCB) or the Pope’s document, Redemptionis Sacramentum. Both documents insist that the Tabernacle should be on an altar in conspicuous view–they do not say the placement should be either way–that the Tabernacle should be set off to the side in a room by itself or not. The documents mention that if the Tabernacle is put in a chapel by itself (and not on the main high altar), the chapel should be suitably decorated and conducive to prayer.
 
one of the catholic churches in my city recently was remodeled. Now the altar no longer has the eucharistic tabernacle present. The tabernacle is housed in the adoration chapel within the church but not visible from the pews. Is this an affront to the eucharist?
The only real reason this should be done is when the main church building is very busy during most days and because of the constant funerals, weddings, visitors, etc. the local faithful could not spend any prayer time with the belssed Sacrament.
 
Not according to the new GIRM of 2002 (approved by the NCCB) or the Pope’s document, Redemptionis Sacramentum. Both documents insist that the Tabernacle should be on an altar in conspicuous view–they do not say the placement should be either way–that the Tabernacle should be set off to the side in a room by itself or not. The documents mention that if the Tabernacle is put in a chapel by itself (and not on the main high altar), the chapel should be suitably decorated and conducive to prayer.
What you say is contradictory. You first say that there is no mention of it being allowed for the tabernacle to be at the side or in a separate chapel but then you go on to say that **if its in a separate chapel it should be suitably decorated and conducive to prayer. **
Obviously this means a separate chapel is allowed.
 
What you say is contradictory. You first say that there is no mention of it being allowed for the tabernacle to be at the side or in a separate chapel but then you go on to say that **if its in a separate chapel it should be suitably decorated and conducive to prayer. **
Obviously this means a separate chapel is allowed.
Read my post again. I said that the documents don’t say that the Tabernacle has to be in a separate room or on the high altar–just that the placement needs to be “conspicuous”.
 
Not according to the new GIRM of 2002 (approved by the NCCB) or the Pope’s document, Redemptionis Sacramentum. Both documents insist that the Tabernacle should be on an altar in conspicuous view–they do not say the placement should be either way–that the Tabernacle should be set off to the side in a room by itself or not. The documents mention that if the Tabernacle is put in a chapel by itself (and not on the main high altar), the chapel should be suitably decorated and conducive to prayer.
And how does my post actually differ from yours?
 
And how does my post actually differ from yours?
My post was not contradictory (as was accused). I simply said what was decreed in the current documents–documents that anyone can check for themselves.
 
I believe the concern is that the placement of the tabernacle, whether on an altar in the main body of the church or on an altar in a chapel, must be conspicuous.

When the placement is in the main body of the Church, some documents suggest a side altar. The tabernacle is not to be on the main altar but it can be behind it. (If the the main altar is placed up against a wall it may *appear *as if the tabernacle is on the altar but it shouldn’t actually be *sitting *on the main altar.)

If placed in a chapel, I don’t know that the tabernacle itself must be visible from the main body of the church (but I have seen this suggested in many places), but the chapel itself ought to be conspicuous. And the space should be suitably decorated.

Now we can quibble about the definition of conspicuous as applied to the location of a tabernacle. But we should also keep in mind that most documents phrase such ideas as “ought to be”. That means an ideal. Church documents don’t use the word ought for absolutes. Unless something is phrased in absolute terms (“must be”) or in the negative (“must never be”) then the issue is a matter of prudence (however important) rather than obedience.
 
Read my post again. I said that the documents don’t say that the Tabernacle has to be in a separate room or on the high altar–just that the placement needs to be “conspicuous”.
You should re-read your post and mine.
What you said was that the documents say the tabernacle should be on an altar in conspicuous view and that they do not say it can be on either side or in a separate room. In other words it cannot be on the side or in a separate room.
Yet you go on to say that IF the tabernacle is in a separate room the chapel should be suitably decorated and conducive to prayer. How can there be a requirement for the separate room to be suitably decorated and conducive to prayer if the tabernacle is not allowed to be anywhere except on the altar in conspicuous view?
 
How can there be a requirement for the separate room to be suitably decorated and conducive to prayer if the tabernacle is not allowed to be anywhere except on the altar in conspicuous view?
The documents mention “an” altar–not the high altar nor the one used in the Mass–and it does need to be conspicuous. (Now IMO that is plain common sense considering the importance of Eucharist/Jesus for Catholics. I, myself, have had a visitor to a parish that doesn’t have the Tabernacle in a conspicuous place ask me “Where’s the Tabernacle? Am I in a Catholic) Church?”)

The Pope nor the Bishops were not contradictory in their documents concerning this.
 
I too have gone in to a church in which I could not find the tabernacle, at all. I found that the beautiful church had been remodeled in a most horrendous way in which the old altar area is now the Adoration room, with a wall that was decorated with what looked like a connected screen with donation plaques on it, and was just to the left of where we were sitting,and I hadn’t realized it, with an entrance I couldn’t find until Mass was over. It was NOT conspicuous.:rolleyes: There was also an outside entrance. The new altar was on what was the side of the church and the old entrance was just an empty area over to the right. A whole new entrance had been created on the other wall with a big foyer for “fellowship” I guess. 🤷 In the church we regularly attended while living in that area for a year or so, there was a tabernacle behind the altar but separated by a wooden screen like effect with a gauzy curtain. Not bad, really because the whole church was so beautiful. You could see the tabernacle behind the screen and there was a red light up above. They also had an Adoration chapel to the left of the front of the church which was lovely and I enjoyed going there. Since then they have built a totally separate one with a big tall ugly, IMHO, bell tower. I hope they haven’t removed the tabernacle from the altar area but I doubt we will be going back there. Anyway, is there some rule that says that the tabernacle can be in the church…conspicuous as ours is in our new church…yet also in an Adoration chapel? I’ve wondered about it since it has happened several times that the Blessed Sacrament has had to be moved to the cry room if there’s funeral on the all day Adoration times. Our Pastor does not want a Chapel but still…why not both? :confused:( 👋 to Jean) M.A.
 
I too have gone in to a church in which I could not find the tabernacle, at all. I found that the beautiful church had been remodeled in a most horrendous way in which the old altar area is now the Adoration room, with a wall that was decorated with what looked like a connected screen with donation plaques on it, and was just to the left of where we were sitting,and I hadn’t realized it, with an entrance I couldn’t find until Mass was over. It was NOT conspicuous.:rolleyes: There was also an outside entrance. The new altar was on what was the side of the church and the old entrance was just an empty area over to the right. A whole new entrance had been created on the other wall with a big foyer for “fellowship” I guess. 🤷 In the church we regularly attended while living in that area for a year or so, there was a tabernacle behind the altar but separated by a wooden screen like effect with a gauzy curtain. Not bad, really because the whole church was so beautiful. You could see the tabernacle behind the screen and there was a red light up above. They also had an Adoration chapel to the left of the front of the church which was lovely and I enjoyed going there. Since then they have built a totally separate one with a big tall ugly, IMHO, bell tower. I hope they haven’t removed the tabernacle from the altar area but I doubt we will be going back there. Anyway, is there some rule that says that the tabernacle can be in the church…conspicuous as ours is in our new church…yet also in an Adoration chapel? I’ve wondered about it since it has happened several times that the Blessed Sacrament has had to be moved to the cry room if there’s funeral on the all day Adoration times. Our Pastor does not want a Chapel but still…why not both? :confused:( 👋 to Jean) M.A.
There is only supposed to be 1 tabernacle in a Church.
Code of Canon Law
Can. 938 §1. The Most Holy Eucharist is to be reserved habitually in only one tabernacle of a church or oratory.
§2. The tabernacle in which the Most Holy Eucharist is reserved is to be situated in some part of the church or oratory which is distinguished, conspicuous, beautifully decorated, and suitable for prayer.
Why would they repose the Blessed Sacrament in two different places in one building?

As for those who talk about what Redemptionis Sacramentum says, here’s the relevant item:
[130.] “According to the structure of each church building and in accordance with legitimate local customs, the Most Holy Sacrament is to be reserved in a tabernacle in a part of the church that is noble, prominent, readily visible, and adorned in a dignified manner” and furthermore “suitable for prayer” by reason of the quietness of the location, the space available in front of the tabernacle, and also the supply of benches or seats and kneelers.[221]
So an Adoration Chapel is perfectly fine as long as there is no search required to locate it within the church.
 
Thank you for posting from Redemptionis Sacramentum.

Here is a posting from the 2002 GIRM:
The Place for the Reservation of the Most Holy Eucharist
  1. In accordance with the structure of each church and legitimate local customs, the Most Blessed Sacrament should be reserved in a tabernacle in a part of the church that is truly noble, prominent, readily visible, beautifully decorated, and suitable for prayer.125
The one tabernacle should be immovable, be made of solid and inviolable material that is not transparent, and be locked in such a way that the danger of profanation is prevented to the greatest extent possible.126 Moreover, it is appropriate that, before it is put into liturgical use, it be blessed according to the rite described in the Roman Ritual.127
  1. It is more in keeping with the meaning of the sign that the tabernacle in which the Most Holy Eucharist is reserved not be on an altar on which Mass is celebrated.128
Consequently, it is preferable that the tabernacle be located, according to the judgment of the Diocesan Bishop,
Either in the sanctuary, apart from the altar of celebration, in a form and place more appropriate, not excluding on an old altar no longer used for celebration (cf. above, no. 303);
Or even in some chapel suitable for the faithful’s private adoration and prayer129 and which is organically connected to the church and readily visible to the Christian faithful.
(all emphasis mine)

This is actually from the UCCB website but through the Adoremus website. Actually, the Adoremus website (www.adoremus.org) is quite informative. Adoremus deals with the reform of the reform and seeks to support Vatican II documents.
 
one of the catholic churches in my city recently was remodeled. Now the altar no longer has the eucharistic tabernacle present. The tabernacle is housed in the adoration chapel within the church but not visible from the pews. Is this an affront to the eucharist?
no it is perfectly acceptable, and may be preferable if there are reasons proper reverence for the sacrament may be at times lacking in the body of the church, such as a historic church or pilgrimage site visited by tourists

point of clarification for poster above, GIRM says tabernacle should be on AN altar, not the main altar. an older church that retains the old high altar has a good setting, a newer one or a remodeled one might very well need a separate chapel precisely for that reason, so it can be house on a suitable altar. It the separate chapel makes it possible to open the chapel for adorers even when the main church is locked, so much the better.
 
at one of the local parishes, the tabernacle is built into the wall, such that it can be accesed from behind the altar, but also from the Adoration chapel on the other side of the wall. I think its a pretty good arrangement. Not all that excited over its looks, but design is pretty good
 
at one of the local parishes, the tabernacle is built into the wall, such that it can be accesed from behind the altar, but also from the Adoration chapel on the other side of the wall. I think its a pretty good arrangement. Not all that excited over its looks, but design is pretty good
Sounds like the new church being built in the next parish. The tabernacle will actually be in the chapel, but a glass door at the back of the main altar will be opened during Mass in the main church. Said glass door will make the tabernacle viewable from either side.
 
When the Blessed Sacrament is exposed in a Monstrance for Adoration it is on the altar or when that altar is necessary for a funeral or other mass it is then on an altar-like structure in another room. That’s how it is in our church but I would much prefer that the Monstrance be in an actual Adoration Chapel so that the main altar is free at any time for a Mass. In that case there are not 2 tabernacles. The Blessed Sacrament therefore would be in 2 places but in different ways. Should such an Adoration chapel be separate from the church? The church we attended in Idaho has a brand new Chapel now, built separate, and they are trying for perpetual adoration. Another big new church has the Adoration Chapel in an area that is between the church and the class rooms. If we hadn’t come in thru those doors, instead of the main ones, we never would’ve known it was there and it was called the Resurrection Room. Have you heard of that before? 🤷 I never did open the door to that room and see how it was arranged. The church itself does not have a Tabernacle that I could see. This church had a beautiful entrance foyer but then you entered the church by turning to the right, not straight on, and it seemed more like a theater with a floor that slanted down to the raised altar area…quite modern yet had beautiful statues and Stations OTC. There was a choir pit to the left of the altar with microphones that hung down on tiny wires. There is another older traditional church we visited in which there is a tiny Adoration chapel with the tabernacle there (The Host not exposed in a monstrance) to the left of the altar area. The door to this chapel is open and there is a red light outside the door and it is readily available for more Blessed Hosts if needed during Mass.There seems to be as many ways of doing it as there are Parishes. :confused:
God’s blessings be with you all…M.A.
 
Should such an Adoration chapel be separate from the church?
The 2002 GIRM indicates some requirements for the Tabernacle and that if there is a separate Adoration Chapel for the Tabernacle:
which is organically connected to the church and readily visible to the Christian faithful.
Never heard of a Ressurection Room.
 
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