An argument with an atheist

[Matthias123]

**Introduction
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In the beginning, reason provided man a means to know truths, and to grope after the higher truths of God. For He that is, and always was, is Truth, so that even every intellect in the cosmos was ceased to be, truth would still remain. Reality is a mediation of two minds, the mind of man, and the mind of God. It is only in the correspondence of the mind, to the ideas of the Divine intellect does man come to knowledge of things. In man’s quest to know truths, it seems that we have lost the concepts of the higher truths, that men have thirsted, and desired since the dawn of the human race. The members of the “New Atheism” movement are a rather peculiar bunch, as they are ignorant the lessons learned of the more mature and reasonable atheists of the 19th century. Instead they profess, with an almost childlike gullibility the utopian vision of the Enlightenment; a godless secular society, without the evils and superstition of the religious past. They proclaim the human race has matured – they have unchained themselves from the constrictions of tradition, and have become “free thinkers”

Once again the trumpet of human progress has been sounded, once again do men rally around the flag of positivism, and once again do they stand, ready to do battle with the people of God and the Lord of Sabaoth. This time however the situation is different. For as the host of the godless approaches, it becomes clear that they do not have any weapons, nothing to cut down the enemy with – no new solid arguments to forward.

It reminds me of the victory of the Scottish Picts had over the Roman Legion. The Picts were victorious, not for skill at arms, but for painting themselves blue and setting their hair on fire, thus routing the Romans. It seems that in this particular battle, between theism and atheism, the atheists are the Picts. Their arguments are void of real substance, their content is illusionary, due to the invincible ignorance of the populace in matters that pertain to this particular debate.

Inspired by C.S Lewis debating on the radio with a fictional atheist (himself) I thought I would do the same – although I need to admit, it isn’t really a debate, it is more an argument.

Atheist:

Ah, there goes that theist nonsense again – why doesn’t he go read a science book? Doesn’t he know that we evolve from apes? Doesn’t he know that science has disproved God? I know what they are like, they are always hoping for a gap in scientific knowledge so they can shove God in there. In all honesty, I think adults with invisible friends are a little touched in the head. They are victims of the complexity of the human mind; it is very complex you know – it can make things seem very real, but all it is just a fantasy, a delusion.

Christian:

Alas! Why must intelligent men pursue escapades of ignorance? Let me ask you good sir, have you ever wondered why materialism was originally rejected for hylomorphism? Did it occur to you, that their may be problems with the notion that only material things exist in objective reality? Did you think it was rather curious, when you discovered that the Jesuits at the Vatican Observatory are searching for dark matter? Would it surprise you to know that only you and the religious fundamentalists hold to the notion that the bible says anything about science? Actually that is incorrect, there was one thing it did teach about science. The pagans always ridiculed us about this one – it was rather temping for people to reject, as it was a rather strange notion to hold true at the time. Sacred Scripture taught that the universe had a beginning. This was absurd to those in the 11th century BC that claimed that the earth always existed. “Humans were always here!” It was also absurd to the pagans in the 4th century – the Greeks especially. It was debated about throughout the Middle Ages, and rejected by “Enlightened ones” of the enlightenment, in favour of Newtonian physics. It was rejected to all physics, and scientists up to the modern era – I know you atheist chaps were very fold of the oscillating big bang model, it is strange, but I don’t hear too much about it nowadays. I know Quentin Smith was big on it in the 90s. Nevertheless after over 3000 years of rejection, Dr. Alexander Vilenkin in the Borde-Guth-Vilenkin theorem proves for certain that not only the universe has a beginning, but if there is a multiverse, it has a beginning too. We will just keep this really hush though; it might make some people uncomfortable.
**
Atheist:
**
This is merely a coincidence and inconsequential, you can believe all that trash if you like. The root of the problem is God of the Old Testament is arguably the most unpleasant character in all fiction: jealous and proud of it; a petty, unjust, unforgiving control-freak; a vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously malevolent bully. You see, you serve an evil idea “God”, and you are converting people to your cause daily. Religion, more specifically Christianity is the root of all evil, spreading superstition throughout would, causing wars and destruction. The only way to be a moral person is to reject religion.

 

[Matthias123]

**Christian:
**
“You brood of vipers, how can you who are evil say anything good? For out of the overflow of the heart the mouth speaks…. For a fool speaks nonsense, And his heart inclines toward wickedness: To practice ungodliness and to speak error against the LORD, To keep the hungry person unsatisfied And to withhold drink from the thirsty.” (Matt 12:34, Isiah 32:6)

The upright and just rejoice in the justice of the Lord; He is faithful and punishes the wicked. The men of Canaan were given their time and their opportunity of repentance. They offered human sacrifices to the Baals, and practiced ritual prostitution, they were abominable in their deeds,; their iniquity was complete. They brought upon themselves the judgement of the Lord, and after wonders were performed in Egypt, the Lord ordered Joshua to sack Jericho, Ali, and other Canaan cities, as Divine Retribution, to establish the bearers of revelation, who would eventually bring the Christ into the world. Canaan and all the inhabitants were destroyed, not by the ad hoc power of God as Sodom and Gomorrah, but by the people of God, under direction from the Lord of Hosts himself He instituted His law, which is already known in the natural order, in order to form the nation of Israel, which would bring forth the Redeemer of the human race – Christ Jesus.

In Christ we are called to a complete death to self. The greatest in heaven will be the one who is the greatest servant on earth. Everyone who loves his life will loose it, and everyone who sacrifices his life for the sake of the Gospel will gain it. We are called to serve each other with perfect charity. I am called to be your humble servant, loving you unconditionally, not distinguishing between friend and foe. As the enemies of the martyrs were their torturers and executioners, but they still loved them dearly. As their flesh was being stripped of the bone by the Roman torture tools, they were lauding God, begging for the forgiveness of their torturers, and professing their love for them. So moving was this sight that the Roman executioners and tortures put down their torture tools and joined them in martyrdom.

Oh but Christians must be self-righteous! Such piety and goodness that they display, they must think highly of themselves! Do you know that Christians believe they deserve hell fire? We are members of a fallen race, inheriting the sin of Adam. I was born into sin from birth, and from then on I was a sinner, and because of my guilt I deserve the wrath of the Lord. Every day I fail in his sight, and every second that ticks by I become more and more unworthy before His sight – I deserve unquenchable fire for what I have done. O but if you could fathom how much God loves us! Did you know that God is madly in love with you? Do you know that there is salvation for you? Did you know that God – love itself – became flesh and dwelt among us, and suffered the most exquisite tortures for our sake? Do you not know that Love was flogged, spat upon, and nailed to a tree? Blood and water flowed out form the heart of Jesus, as a fountain of mercy for us all. It was the sign of the new and greater covenant that not only spans the Jews of the old covenant, but the gentiles as well. I am not a Jew, I am a gentile form birth, yet by the mercy of God, I am reconciled with the Father. As Christ did not come for Jew or for Greek or for Roman, he came for his lost sheep; the sons of Adam. For those that fell in Adam are redeemed through the New Adam Jesus Christ. It is love itself that offers salvation, and the only response to love is love itself.

What must be done for salvation one might ask? Love the Lord your God with all your heart soul and strength, and love your neighbour as yourself – it is that simple. Yet the wicked man rejects this – even worse they call it evil. As Christ was called the Prince of Evil by the Pharisees, so too will Christians be called the root of all evil. Those that hate and loath justice will never know the ways of the Lord. They spew judgement from their mouths, and then return to their ways of lust, adultery greed, and pride. What a perverse generation! Those that bear our cross following Christ Jesus on His way to Golgotha, will take our afflictions and pray for those who trespass us, giving forgiveness freely, and love those who spit on us, and after we die with Christ on cavalry, we will rise with Him during the terrible and joyous Second Advent, when Jesus Christ returns to judge the living and the dead.

This is the faith that we have received from the Apostles and their successors the Bishops. As Christ Jesus said: “I am sending you prophets and wise men and teachers. Some of them you will kill and crucify; others you will flog in your synagogues and pursue from town to town.” Revelation does shine in the world, and the truth of God is seen by every man that hears the Gospel.
**
Atheist:**

This is absolute utter trash. I come and try to talk with you reasonably and you spew this religious nonsense at me. You speak of “judgement” and “wrath of God”, and all of this fine stuff. Your God will send people to never ending torture, and then you then say he is good? That is utter illogical foolishness. I cannot believe that a person in this century would speak like this, let alone profess it so firmly. You really are a joke.
**
Christian:
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“He that loves not has not known God; for God is love” (John 1:8)

 

[Matthias123]

There was a specific theme that I hope is conveyed in this note. First of all, this note is a replica of my personal experience, and is formed for the purpose of demonstrating, in much realism as possible, that nobody can convince an unwilling man, in issues such as these. Even if what you say is true in reality, extreme scepticism can be adopted to cast doubt in a convincing way. Also in here we can see a shadowing of the Gospel narrative. The reader, in reading such a conversation, will be inclined to take a side in the debate. If one is to do this, there would be two choices, either for the Christian and against the atheist, or against the Christian and for the Atheist.

Now this choice can be compared to that of the choice the Jews had, either to free Jesus of Nazareth who claimed he was the Christ, or free Jesus Bar Abbas the Jewish freedom fighter. Barabbas promised to bring freedom and peace to the Jewish people through earthly means. To create a utopian Judea free of Roman oppression. In contrast Jesus of Nazareth offered the opposite; he would bring the sword, and put mother against daughter, and father against son, for the sake of Himself. He preached a death to self, to serve others with charity, to love your neighbour as yourself, and to exchange everything on earth, for the reassure of the Kingdom of Heaven. He came to reconcile us with God the Father, and set us free from our chains of death.

So too does the reader have this choice – to side with the atheist, who promises to create a utopian society through entirely earthly means, who promises peace on earth once all concept of God has been crushed – or to side with the Christian, who does not promise peace on earth, but offers the treasure of the Kingdom of Heaven, to allow one to grow in virtue and love, and to love one another in the fullest sense. In this the Christian promises not peace, but the sword, for the truth in love is foreign to the sons of men, and the sudden influx of order into a society that all too readily acts contrary to the natural law, the order of the natural world, causes deep conflicts… Read More

Also notice that the atheist is unlikely to research such objections to his claim that Christianity was anti-intellectual and stands in the way of scientific realities. He has already made up his mind, and nothing is going to change it. In this, he does not trust his reason, but he is holding it on faith that the Christian’s argument is fallacious. I am not persecuting him for having faith; on the contrary in his words he is persecuting himself for having faith. You see to the atheist, it is alright to hold truths on faith, as long as they are not the higher truths of God.

 

[Matthias123]

Keeping in mind, that there are some atheists that are not like this. I do respect atheists on this forum, and the ones who this criticism does not apply to, you know who you are.