B
BioCatholic
Guest
It took a while to finally get a prosecutor (who will remain unamed at their request) to have a telephone conversation about this whole thing. Most don’t want to speculate at all, but I did find one very pro-life counselor who had his own opinions about how he would proceed with this new law. So after an hour of long-distance cell phone minutes, here are the most direct questions relating to HB1215:
ME: As I have some interest in how your state plans to handle women who travel out of your state to have an abortion. It is quite possible I may pull over a woman from your state physically en route to an abortion facility here to have one performed. I would like to know whether yourself, your counterparts, or your attorney general would like them to be detained for violation of HB1215, “for procuring and abortion”. I may also deal with persons or a group running “campaigns” that aid women in your state to specifically circumvent your laws by leaving it.
Prosecutor: The bill specifically states no punishment is leveled at the woman herself, and only targets the doctor (emphasis added) performing it. Since the doctor would be in South Florida, unfortunately, we have no jurisdiction.
ME: What about a husband, boyfriend, sister etc., who drive the pregnant woman out of your state with the specific intent to have an abortion.
Prosecutor: Once they cross the state line, the law becomes useless. Intent does not matter in this case, as the Supreme Court numerous times has upheld the right of people to travel freely. Without a court order, we can’t hold a pregnant women inside the state. The same holds true for gambling, drug use in European countries, and unfortunately, sex offender registry types in two or three states. I mean, I guess you could post state troopers 500 feet from state borders to stop and question pregnant woman what their intentions are leaving the state, but you and I both know how long that would last.
ME: How do you plan to deal with reported “bus ticket” campaigns by Planned Parenthood and Feminist groups, where prepaid bus tickets to Sioux City Iowa or other cities would be mailed to women desiring abortions in S. Dakota?
Prosecutor: I haven’t heard of that one yet (laughs), but I’ve heard of some real radical feminist groups preparing “home abortion” kits though. That [the bus ticket] might be something we can deal with, maybe. See, there are Federal (emphasis added) laws that address using the US Postal Service as a means to break state laws, but that again, might conflict with the ability of persons to travel freely. Like I said before, the law targets the doctor, and not the woman. So if the ticket is sent to her directly, then we have no means to prosecute. However, if a group outside the state mails the ticket to a third party like a husband or boyfriend inside our state, who then gives the ticket to the woman in question, we have a slight chance of prosecuting for violation of [the] HB1215 “abetting or procuring” clause. That’s a real long-shot though. The law is very, very narrow.
ME: is there any plan to impose “Long-Arm Jurisdiction”, where a state may claim that its residents, even while out of state, are subject to its own laws and restrictions? For instance, a web server in California launches a website with information for S. Dakota women to perform their own abortions, obtain plane tickets, book reservations for interstate travel. Would you seek civil penalties like Missouri does for minors having abortions in Kansas to circumvent parental notification laws?
Prosecutor: I see where you are going with this, but the issue of civil vs. criminal are apples and oranges. You know better than that. In my opinion, the Missouri law only gives a venue for Missouri parents who were dubbed by Kansas to seek civil damages for violation of their basic rights as a parent. “Long-Arm Jurisdiction” is very difficult to invoke, and without specific legislation, or an executive order from the Governor specifically targeting leaving the state for an abortion, or aiding in abortions from other states, there’s pretty much nothing we can do.
There is only so much a state legislature can do with respect to traveling out of state. We have very good cause to require a sex offender to notify us if they are leaving the state because of the threat they pose to others, and as a method of keeping track of them so they don’t leave the state, drive 100 miles north, and cross back over and rape again. We don’t have any legal ground to stand on to create a “pregnant woman’s registry”.
ME: As I have some interest in how your state plans to handle women who travel out of your state to have an abortion. It is quite possible I may pull over a woman from your state physically en route to an abortion facility here to have one performed. I would like to know whether yourself, your counterparts, or your attorney general would like them to be detained for violation of HB1215, “for procuring and abortion”. I may also deal with persons or a group running “campaigns” that aid women in your state to specifically circumvent your laws by leaving it.
Prosecutor: The bill specifically states no punishment is leveled at the woman herself, and only targets the doctor (emphasis added) performing it. Since the doctor would be in South Florida, unfortunately, we have no jurisdiction.
ME: What about a husband, boyfriend, sister etc., who drive the pregnant woman out of your state with the specific intent to have an abortion.
Prosecutor: Once they cross the state line, the law becomes useless. Intent does not matter in this case, as the Supreme Court numerous times has upheld the right of people to travel freely. Without a court order, we can’t hold a pregnant women inside the state. The same holds true for gambling, drug use in European countries, and unfortunately, sex offender registry types in two or three states. I mean, I guess you could post state troopers 500 feet from state borders to stop and question pregnant woman what their intentions are leaving the state, but you and I both know how long that would last.
ME: How do you plan to deal with reported “bus ticket” campaigns by Planned Parenthood and Feminist groups, where prepaid bus tickets to Sioux City Iowa or other cities would be mailed to women desiring abortions in S. Dakota?
Prosecutor: I haven’t heard of that one yet (laughs), but I’ve heard of some real radical feminist groups preparing “home abortion” kits though. That [the bus ticket] might be something we can deal with, maybe. See, there are Federal (emphasis added) laws that address using the US Postal Service as a means to break state laws, but that again, might conflict with the ability of persons to travel freely. Like I said before, the law targets the doctor, and not the woman. So if the ticket is sent to her directly, then we have no means to prosecute. However, if a group outside the state mails the ticket to a third party like a husband or boyfriend inside our state, who then gives the ticket to the woman in question, we have a slight chance of prosecuting for violation of [the] HB1215 “abetting or procuring” clause. That’s a real long-shot though. The law is very, very narrow.
ME: is there any plan to impose “Long-Arm Jurisdiction”, where a state may claim that its residents, even while out of state, are subject to its own laws and restrictions? For instance, a web server in California launches a website with information for S. Dakota women to perform their own abortions, obtain plane tickets, book reservations for interstate travel. Would you seek civil penalties like Missouri does for minors having abortions in Kansas to circumvent parental notification laws?
Prosecutor: I see where you are going with this, but the issue of civil vs. criminal are apples and oranges. You know better than that. In my opinion, the Missouri law only gives a venue for Missouri parents who were dubbed by Kansas to seek civil damages for violation of their basic rights as a parent. “Long-Arm Jurisdiction” is very difficult to invoke, and without specific legislation, or an executive order from the Governor specifically targeting leaving the state for an abortion, or aiding in abortions from other states, there’s pretty much nothing we can do.
There is only so much a state legislature can do with respect to traveling out of state. We have very good cause to require a sex offender to notify us if they are leaving the state because of the threat they pose to others, and as a method of keeping track of them so they don’t leave the state, drive 100 miles north, and cross back over and rape again. We don’t have any legal ground to stand on to create a “pregnant woman’s registry”.
