An Objection by a Shi'a Muslim about the Holy Trinity

[CatholicAlbani]

I think this discussion (of the OP) is interesting.

However, the OP should bear in mind that his Muslim inquirer is operating under certain “first principles.” Based on his questions, if the OP can sound their depth, he may be able to deduce what they are. These first principles may not even be consciously known to the Muslim inquirer. But establishing what they are will be a true exercise in really listening to what he says. It may help the dialog along as well, if the Muslim inquirer recognizes your real interest in what motivates his beliefs.

What are first principles? "A first principle is a basic, foundational proposition or assumption that cannot be deduced from any other proposition or assumption. "

IOW, it is not provable, but is an assumption that all further knowledge depends on.

For example: the Muslim assumes as a first principle that Mohammed is the greatest and the last prophet. He also assumes that the Christian Bible is corrupt and full of errors.

He can’t prove these things, but it will make discussion impossible if he is unwilling to suspend his first principles (for the sake of argument at least.)

Actually in this case the muslim I’m arguing against is very much okay with using the bible as a reliable source
Shi’a Islam is extremely different from Sunni Islam most people know
He uses alot of Arian arguments and applies the same things scripture says about Jesus also on 'Ali

 

[gmcbroom]

So then he wants you explain the mystery of the trinity? Is he willing to explain Dawai? Both are mysteries. We as humans can never fully explain the mysteries of God. We can use conjecture but to speak of the essence of God is impossible. We can use the teachings of the church and even the bible but to get the answer to that question we won’t know this side of heaven. Ask him to explain Jesus and the word.

 

[sudy]

Genesis 1:26 God said, ‘Let us make man in our own image, in the likeness of ourselves…’

John 1:1-3 In the beginning was the Word; the Word was with God and the Word was God. He was with God in the beginning. Through him all things came into being, not one thing came into being except through him.

John 1:14 The Word became flesh…

Philippians 2:6 Who, being in the form of God did not count equality with God something to be grasped.
Philippians 2:7-8 But he emptied himself, taking the form of a slave, becoming as human beings are; and being in every way like a human being, he was humbler yet, even to accepting death, death on a cross.

John 20:28 Thomas replied, ‘My Lord and my God!’
John 20:29 Jesus said to him: You believe because you can see me. Blessed are those who have not seen and yet believe.

John 17:5 Now, Father, glorify me with that glory I had with you before ever the world existed.

 

[eddie_too]

i realize that many people deny that God is One Perfect Being shared completely with Three Eternal Persons.

these people who deny that the Holy Trinity is real often ask for believers in the Holy Trinity to prove that God is One Being and Three Persons.

how about a different tack? let those who deny the Holy Trinity prove that God is only one person.

how about it? let us hear your proofs that God is only one person. make a reasonable argument in support of that assertion.

fellow christians, let us not hold our breaths waiting for a reasonable argument. why? because it cannot be made. God is Three Persons. there cannot be a rational argument made against the Holy Trinity because the Holy Trinity is real and a fact.

but, let us wait and see how the deniers of the Holy Trinity support their alternative belief, that God is only one Person.

we christians have loads of arguments from reason, from scripture, from tradition, to support our belief in the Holy Trinity. we provide them all of the time.