Anathasian Creed

[Salty_Macadamia]

Curious if someone here can help shed some light on this Creed for me. First of all, why is it uncommon knowledge? The Apostles’ Creed and Nicene Creed and commonly used and printed. I’ve known about them for years. This one I’ve only recently discovered.
Are there more Creeds then the three?

Also in it’s reading it state’s He’ll judge the quick and the dead. Is the quick the living? If so why the change of words?

My thanks to anyone who maybe able to help.

 

[didymus]

catholictradition.org/Tradition/creeds.htm

The Athanasian Creed
[QUICUNQUE VULT]

• Whosoever will be saved, before all things it is necessary that he hold the Catholic [Apostolic/Universal] Faith, which except everyone shall have kept whole and undefiled, without doubt he will perish eternally.
• Now the Catholic Faith is this: We worship One God in Trinity and Trinity in Unity, neither confounding the Persons nor dividing the substance.
• For there is one Person of the Father, another of the Son, another of the Holy Spirit. But the Godhead of the Father, of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit, is One, the Glory equal, the Majesty coeternal.
• Such as the Father is, such is the Son, and such is the Holy Spirit; the Father uncreated, the Son uncreated, and the Holy Spirit uncreated; the Father infinite, the Son infinite, and the Holy Spirit infinite; the Father eternal, the Son eternal, and the Holy Spirit eternal. And yet not three eternals but one eternal, as also not three infinites, nor three uncreated, but one uncreated, and one infinite. So, likewise, the Father is almighty, the Son almighty, and the Holy Spirit almighty; and yet not three almighties but one almighty.
• So the Father is God, the Son God, and the Holy Spirit God; and yet not three Gods but one God. So the Father is Lord, the Son Lord, and the Holy Spirit Lord; and yet not three Lords but one Lord. For like as we are compelled by Christian truth to acknowledge every Person by Himself to be both God and Lord; so are we forbidden by the Catholic religion to say, there be three Gods or three Lords.
• The Father is made of none, neither created nor begotten. The Son is of the Father alone, not made nor created but begotten. The Holy Spirit is of the Father and the Son, not made nor created nor begotten but proceeding. So there is one Father not three Fathers, one Son not three Sons, and Holy Spirit not three Holy Spirits. And in this Trinity there is nothing before or after, nothing greater or less, but the whole three Persons are coeternal together and coequal.
• So that in all things, as is aforesaid, the Trinity in Unity and the Unity in Trinity is to be worshipped. He therefore who wills to be in a state of salvation, let him think thus of the Trinity.
• But it is necessary to eternal salvation that he also believe faithfully the Incarnation of our Lord Jesus Christ. The right faith therefore is that we believe and confess that our Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God, is God and Man.
• He is God of the substance of the Father begotten before the worlds, and He is man of the substance of His mother born in the world; perfect God, perfect man subsisting of a reasoning soul and human flesh; equal to the Father as touching His Godhead, inferior to the Father as touching His Manhood.
• Who although He be God and Man yet He is not two but one Christ; one however not by conversion of the GodHead in the flesh, but by taking of the Manhood in God; one altogether not by confusion of substance but by unity of Person. For as the reasoning soul and flesh is one man, so God and Man is one Christ.
• Who suffered for our salvation, descended into hell, rose again from the dead, ascended into heaven, sits at the right hand of the Father, from whence He shall come to judge the living and the dead. At whose coming all men shall rise again with their bodies and shall give account for their own works. And they that have done good shall go into life eternal, and they who indeed have done evil into eternal fire.
• This is the Catholic faith, which except a man shall have believed faithfully and firmly he cannot be in a state of salvation.

For more see article in the Catholic Encyclopedia.

 

[Dranu]

Curious if someone here can help shed some light on this Creed for me. First of all, why is it uncommon knowledge? The Apostles’ Creed and Nicene Creed and commonly used and printed. I’ve known about them for years. This one I’ve only recently discovered.

It is somewhat technical and difficult for the average person to grasp in my opinion, and as such it is not commonly spoken of. Of course all references to the logic of the Trinity will probably quote it.

Are there more Creeds then the three?

You know, I am not entirely certain. I have heard talk of Trentine Creed, and some other ‘creeds’ or ‘expansions’ in various councils. How much they are actually considered creeds or how certain such data is true really beyond me. So really ‘no comment’ on my end .

Also in it’s reading it state’s He’ll judge the quick and the dead. Is the quick the living? If so why the change of words?

Quick is the living. Changes of words used are only like changes of the commonly used names for the same referent. In a way it is like a translation from another language. When a word’s meaning (such as quick for living) falls out of popular use, it begins to actually fall out of that language, thus such ‘translations’ are given, with the exact same meaning remaining constant. If we were really not to change the words in that matter, even if the meaning stayed the same, then we would have to leave it in its original language as well by that logic.

Still translations can go bad, so that is why the continued (not left in a book long since left to time for the individual to find) mission of the Church’s guidance by God helps us in accepting proper (sufficiently reliable) translations too. By certain guarantees they have the ability to offer a similar authority to the translation as they did when it was first penned in its first language (how this relates to this translation I am not sure ). Thus, by the reason of the Church’s continued presence, we need not fear the loss of the true faith due to mistranslation and loss of the original scriptures as ‘Sola Scriptura’ Christians, and Muslims must worry of. I find ‘Sola Scriptura’ difficult to understant, but various Protestant acceptance of the creeds I find even more difficult to understand logically since some sprouted up in the Catholic Church far longer after the resurrection than the earliest gospels.

–Athanasian Creed is great though. I am a philosophy undergraduate, and I can say that it certainly solves some fears of contradictions in the Trinity, and is explicit in doing so (much to my happiness). Furthermore, it refrains from making a bi-conditional relations from the Persons to God. It only makes it one way (i.e. Father is God, but no mention if God is Father). This prevents the appearance of Contradiction by hypothetical syllogism with the truth that Father is not Son, and when we also add something like ‘God is Son’. The latter, ‘God is Son’, is not done here, or elsewhere as certain doctrine as far as I can tell. ‘Son is God’ is done (and rightly so), but this has a different logical meaning and avoids contradiction.

 

[Deacon_Latif]

Curious if someone here can help shed some light on this Creed for me. First of all, why is it uncommon knowledge? The Apostles’ Creed and Nicene Creed and commonly used and printed. I’ve known about them for years. This one I’ve only recently discovered.
Are there more Creeds then the three?

Also in it’s reading it state’s He’ll judge the quick and the dead. Is the quick the living? If so why the change of words?

My thanks to anyone who maybe able to help.

Dear Salty:
The Athanasian Creed is one of the three great Creeds of the Church, though admittedly it is not really part of Eastern tradition. In fact, it is a bit of a misnomer to call it Athanasian. We do so to honor St. Athanasius, and his bold fight against the enemies of the faith in his day. But to be clear, it is a strictly Latin Creed, a tongue which Athanasius didn’t know, and it postdates his life.

Anyway, the reason this creed, which is properly called the Quicumque Vult, after the first words in Latin, is not commonly known is, frankly and sadly, that it is no longer part of the liturgical practice of the Church. I am a Lutheran, and this is true of not only the modern Roman Rite, but of many sectors of Lutheranism as well.

Traditionally, it was recited in the Divine Office on Sundays, the “green” Sundays, at Prime. Eventually, that was reduced to just once a year, at Trinity Sunday. In the modern Roman Rite, it is pretty much gone. In Lutheran use it is still recited congregationally in most places, on Trinity Sunday, in the Mass. Usually, however, on that day it replaces the Nicene Creed, which is a bad idea.

My practice is to pray the Ath. Creed as part of my regular discipline of the Divine Office. I pray it most Sundays of the year, as part of Prime. (Prime itself has fallen victim to modern liturgical usage, in not only the RC, but also many Lutheran and Episc. churches as well.)

 

[Br.Rich_SFO]

Curious if someone here can help shed some light on this Creed for me. First of all, why is it uncommon knowledge? The Apostles’ Creed and Nicene Creed and commonly used and printed. I’ve known about them for years. This one I’ve only recently discovered.
Are there more Creeds then the three?

Also in it’s reading it state’s He’ll judge the quick and the dead. Is the quick the living? If so why the change of words?

My thanks to anyone who maybe able to help.

Yes, there are many more Creeds. There are four well known Creeds of the Catholic Church, Apostles, Nicene, Athanasian, and Credo of the People of God (Pope Paul VI)

 

[Bluegoat]

Dear Salty:
The Athanasian Creed is one of the three great Creeds of the Church, though admittedly it is not really part of Eastern tradition. In fact, it is a bit of a misnomer to call it Athanasian. We do so to honor St. Athanasius, and his bold fight against the enemies of the faith in his day. But to be clear, it is a strictly Latin Creed, a tongue which Athanasius didn’t know, and it postdates his life.

Anyway, the reason this creed, which is properly called the Quicumque Vult, after the first words in Latin, is not commonly known is, frankly and sadly, that it is no longer part of the liturgical practice of the Church. I am a Lutheran, and this is true of not only the modern Roman Rite, but of many sectors of Lutheranism as well.

Traditionally, it was recited in the Divine Office on Sundays, the “green” Sundays, at Prime. Eventually, that was reduced to just once a year, at Trinity Sunday. In the modern Roman Rite, it is pretty much gone. In Lutheran use it is still recited congregationally in most places, on Trinity Sunday, in the Mass. Usually, however, on that day it replaces the Nicene Creed, which is a bad idea.

My practice is to pray the Ath. Creed as part of my regular discipline of the Divine Office. I pray it most Sundays of the year, as part of Prime. (Prime itself has fallen victim to modern liturgical usage, in not only the RC, but also many Lutheran and Episc. churches as well.)

Yes, it seems to be used less than it was. The Canadian Book of Common Prayer says that it should be used regularly, but the newer worship book does not, and I actually have heard of priests that refuse to use it because it is “offensive”.

I think part of the reason though for its lack of popularity is that it is rather opaque to many people. Yes, it seems quite specific and clear, but if you start to think about what it is really trying to say, it becomes less helpful. Questions like “what does je mean by substance, or persons?” start to arise. And those questions get into a lot of historical, theological, and even linguistic issues, which most people are perhaps not interested in - I would even say many priests are probably not prepared to really teach their congregations on such questions.

All that being said, I can’t imagine it not being taught to young people or adults doing their Confirmation training or other classes to prepare them for life as an adult Christian.

 

[patrick457]

Curious if someone here can help shed some light on this Creed for me. First of all, why is it uncommon knowledge? The Apostles’ Creed and Nicene Creed and commonly used and printed. I’ve known about them for years. This one I’ve only recently discovered.
Are there more Creeds then the three?

As mentioned, yes, there are technically more creeds than these three, though the two are the more commonly used throughout many circles of Christendom.

Also in it’s reading it state’s He’ll judge the quick and the dead. Is the quick the living? If so why the change of words?

To be simple, yep, ‘quick’ means ‘living’. Nowadays, the word ‘quick’ is usually used to refer to either (1) something or someone who moves with speed, rapidity or swiftness, or (2) to something or someone who is lively, fast-thinking, agile, and alert; that sort of thing. However, in older English it had another meaning true to its Anglo-Saxon root word (the word quick comes from Old English cwic, “alive”): someone who is living, in the biological sense.

For example, take note of meaning number 2; we’ve just said that quick can refer to someone who is lively and agile. This preserves a bit of the archaic meaning of ‘quick’ (after all, who is more lively than the living? ).

I’ll quote James Thomson’s poem The City of Dreadful Night, penned between 1870 and 1873, here, which includes the verses:

The inmost oratory of my soul,
Wherein thou ever dwellest quick or dead,
Is black with grief eternal for thy sake.