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StrawberryJam
Guest
Demonic Possession seems to get a lot of attention around here. It’s rare to hear of Angelic Possession. Is it possible? If so, is it exactly like Demonic possession? If it happens, is it moral and ethical?
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By_His_Mercy
Guest
I’ve never heard of such a thing. There are examples of demonic possession in the New Testament, but never an “angelic” possession. Angels have often acted as messengers, but I’ve never heard of any possession by good angels. Demons are angels too…they follow Lucifier instead of God, and they want your eternal destruction. -BHMDemonic Possession seems to get a lot of attention around here. It’s rare to hear of Angelic Possession. Is it possible? If so, is it exactly like Demonic possession? If it happens, is it moral and ethical?
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Cat_Herder
Guest
God wills that humans should be free to exercise their will. Allowing an angel to take possession of a human would be contrary to the will of God. Hence, angels do not possess.
The devil, however, is hell-bent on subverting humans to do his bidding. Hence demons can and do possess.
The devil, however, is hell-bent on subverting humans to do his bidding. Hence demons can and do possess.
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StrawberryJam
Guest
The end result would still leave the person without free will.God wills that humans should be free to exercise their will. Allowing an angel to take possession of a human would be contrary to the will of God. Hence, angels do not possess.
The devil, however, is hell-bent on subverting humans to do his bidding. Hence demons can and do possess.
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Cat_Herder
Guest
The end result of a demonic possession? Yes. However, demons only enter a person when that person gives an invitation. The person’s exposition to demonic influence is an act of human free will–which is why God would permit it to happen.The end result would still leave the person without free will.
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StrawberryJam
Guest
Evil can’t be an outside force.The end result of a demonic possession? Yes. However, demons only enter a person when that person gives an invitation. The person’s exposition to demonic influence is an act of human free will–which is why God would permit it to happen.
If it is, it was working overtime during the Middle Ages and has been on a long vacation ever since just popping in and out here and there to check on the old haunts I suppose.
Of course, this makes sense because what people thought were possessions were most likely due to natural causes that medical doctors can diagnose properly now.
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Cat_Herder
Guest
Why not?Evil can’t be an outside force.
Evil has been working overtime since lucifer and company rebelled.If it is, it was working overtime during the Middle Ages and has been on a long vacation ever since just popping in and out here and there to check on the old haunts I suppose.
Of course, this makes sense because what people thought were possessions were most likely due to natural causes that medical doctors can diagnose properly now.
There is more demand for exorcism than ever before. Every exorcist, when possible, consults a physician and psychologist to rule out any natural cause for the phenomenon.
Do you understand that you are putting down the religion that created science?
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StrawberryJam
Guest
I have not, nor am I putting down the catholic religion that did NOT “create” science. I am so sick of hearing that here. I recognize the scientific contributions by catholics, but not false statements.Why not?
Evil has been working overtime since lucifer and company rebelled.
There is more demand for exorcism than ever before. Every exorcist, when possible, consults a physician and psychologist to rule out any natural cause for the phenomenon.
Do you understand that you are putting down the religion that created science?
I don’t care what the demand for excorcisms are now. That does not prove that more are happening now then before.
If you have a short supply of exorcists, and a shorter supply of people who can get to a doctor for treatment, you could end up with the illusion there are more excorcisms being done now than in the past. I want to see a case where a doctor got to see the so called possessed person.
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GEddie
Guest
There are far fewer exorcists in practice than doctors. Also, the Church will not exorcise unless the person involved has been checked medically and psychologically for a possible natural cause to their affliction.I have not, nor am I putting down the catholic religion that did NOT “create” science. I am so sick of hearing that here. I recognize the scientific contributions by catholics, but not false statements.
I don’t care what the demand for excorcisms are now. That does not prove that more are happening now then before.
If you have a short supply of exorcists, and a shorter supply of people who can get to a doctor for treatment, you could end up with the illusion there are more excorcisms being done now than in the past. I want to see a case where a doctor got to see the so called possessed person.
ICXC NIKA
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StrawberryJam
Guest
What kinds of examples do we have of people that have afflictions that are not treatable by the medical community, but treatable by the priest?There are far fewer exorcists in practice than doctors. Also, the Church will not exorcise unless the person involved has been checked medically and psychologically for a possible natural cause to their affliction.
ICXC NIKA
Is it only christians who get possessed?
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Cat_Herder
Guest
Fr. Roger Bacon. Fr. Nicholas Copernicus. Br. Gregor Mendel. Louis Pasteur. Msgr. Georges Lemaitre. Many more.I have not, nor am I putting down the catholic religion that did NOT “create” science.
And by denying their contributions and those of the Church which educated and financed them, you are doing the very thing you deny doing.
If all exorcisms (A) require a doctor’s evaluation (B) the number of B is greater or equal to the number of A.If you have a short supply of exorcists, and a shorter supply of people who can get to a doctor for treatment, you could end up with the illusion there are more excorcisms being done now than in the past.
Due to the doctor-patient / clergy-penitent privileges you will not be able to do so.I want to see a case where a doctor got to see the so called possessed person.
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Cat_Herder
Guest
Here you go. And no.What kinds of examples do we have of people that have afflictions that are not treatable by the medical community, but treatable by the priest?
Is it only christians who get possessed?
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StrawberryJam
Guest
I think your post below is in response to what I said here:
I have not, nor am I putting down the catholic religion that did NOT “create” science. I am so sick of hearing that here. I recognize the scientific contributions by catholics, but not false statements.
Then, you say I deny their contributions. Right after I tell you that I do not deny scientific contributions by catholics.
Do the alleged demon possessed have to seek medical treatment from a doctor chosen for them by the church?
I have not, nor am I putting down the catholic religion that did NOT “create” science. I am so sick of hearing that here. I recognize the scientific contributions by catholics, but not false statements.
Your reply does not in any way show us that the Catholic Church “created” science. You simply list some scientists, and that is all you do.Fr. Roger Bacon. Fr. Nicholas Copernicus. Br. Gregor Mendel. Louis Pasteur. Msgr. Georges Lemaitre. Many more.
And by denying their contributions and those of the Church which educated and financed them, you are doing the very thing you deny doing.
If all exorcisms (A) require a doctor’s evaluation (B) the number of B is greater or equal to the number of A.
Due to the doctor-patient / clergy-penitent privileges you will not be able to do so.
Then, you say I deny their contributions. Right after I tell you that I do not deny scientific contributions by catholics.
Do the alleged demon possessed have to seek medical treatment from a doctor chosen for them by the church?
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Cat_Herder
Guest
No. I said:Your reply does not in any way show us that the Catholic Church “created” science. You simply list some scientists, and that is all you do.
Notice the bold part.And by denying their contributions and those of the Church which educated and financed them, you are doing the very thing you deny doing.
I’ve just come off a previous thread where this was discussed at length… and the anti-Catholic side folded. I think you know that there is unanimous academic assent to the notion that the Catholic Church preserved the Greek and Latin works and educational system upon which the modern scientific method is based and in which it was developed. That is reality. Reality just doesn’t square well with the English Reformation-era caricatures of the Church as a bunch of backwards medieval monks.
No. And many of the reviewing physicians used by the exorcists are atheists.Do the alleged demon possessed have to seek medical treatment from a doctor chosen for them by the church?
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NJJMBVB
Guest
Or maybe, evil HAS been working overtime now, but through inner corruption, rather then exterior attack. It’s a great war strategy - convince the enemy that you don’t exist. Why would Satan go to the trouble of proving to everyone that he exists, since that would lead to more people believing in God. Rather, convince people that sin is not sin, and he has the war won.Evil can’t be an outside force.
If it is, it was working overtime during the Middle Ages and has been on a long vacation ever since just popping in and out here and there to check on the old haunts I suppose.
Of course, this makes sense because what people thought were possessions were most likely due to natural causes that medical doctors can diagnose properly now.
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Nathan_Wagar
Guest
Strawberryjam, if you’re curious about the actual process of the Church, there’s an excellent book called “The Rite,” by Matt Baglio. A journalist tags along with an American priest chosen to be an exorcist and go to Rome for his apprenticeship. It’s very fascinating, and not at all over-the-top. In fact, it has been accused of being a bit dry reading, all though I did not find it so at all.
The Catholic Church has a rather stringent process for exorcism, and there are many prerequisites that have to be met including prior medical evaluation by a team of doctors (being Catholic is not necessary) including a Psychologist, Psychiatrist, and sometimes a neurologist. After they determine no natural cause for the symptoms, the exorcist proceeds to the next step.
3 possible signs are supernatural strength, ability to speak a previously unknown language, and knowledge of hidden things (an example would be entering with an object in a bag and the possessed person tells exactly what it is without prior knowledge). Even then the Ritual advises extreme caution, and other signs such as aversion to the Sacred are taken into account as well. Also, little tricks are sometimes used in cases of doubt such as fake, unblessed Holy Water or reading Latin in prose as opposed to an actual prayer. There’s quite a bit more to it but I came away with a newfound respect for Ritual and the people that perform it, and I highly suggest it for a good read.
Hope this helps.
The Catholic Church has a rather stringent process for exorcism, and there are many prerequisites that have to be met including prior medical evaluation by a team of doctors (being Catholic is not necessary) including a Psychologist, Psychiatrist, and sometimes a neurologist. After they determine no natural cause for the symptoms, the exorcist proceeds to the next step.
3 possible signs are supernatural strength, ability to speak a previously unknown language, and knowledge of hidden things (an example would be entering with an object in a bag and the possessed person tells exactly what it is without prior knowledge). Even then the Ritual advises extreme caution, and other signs such as aversion to the Sacred are taken into account as well. Also, little tricks are sometimes used in cases of doubt such as fake, unblessed Holy Water or reading Latin in prose as opposed to an actual prayer. There’s quite a bit more to it but I came away with a newfound respect for Ritual and the people that perform it, and I highly suggest it for a good read.
Hope this helps.
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BerhaneSelassie
Guest
It could be speculate that an angel somehow 'possessed a body." If the 2 angels in Genesis are not God, then perhaps this is what occurred since angels are not supposed to have physical form, unless they somehow temporarily materialized a body, or they only appear to have one. This also seems the case with the story of Tobias
However, our guardian angel is not supposed to be able to take over our mind…so I am not certain
However, our guardian angel is not supposed to be able to take over our mind…so I am not certain
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GEddie
Guest
Angels who “embody” have not taken over the bodies of human beings. They use their power over our senses to assume a form we can see.It could be speculate that an angel somehow 'possessed a body." If the 2 angels in Genesis are not God, then perhaps this is what occurred since angels are not supposed to have physical form, unless they somehow temporarily materialized a body, or they only appear to have one. This also seems the case with the story of Tobias
However, our guardian angel is not supposed to be able to take over our mind…so I am not certain
Only GOD has full access to our minds. Angels respect that. Demons don’t.
ICXC NIKA.
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angelicwarrior
Guest
I know everyone has the right to their opinion…
But to go so far as to act as if you were raised by wolves and attack each other is contrary to your beliefs.
Where is God in this? Jesus did not teach this to you, yet you claim to follow him???
Any Christian knows that their actions are their testimony. Do you want this to be your testimony…your example of God’s love?
Contrary to what you think, angels and demons are the same thing and have the same abilities…they just have different motives. Hence, you have to learn to discern the spirit, because Lucifer was God’s most beautiful angel and right hand man so to speak. He will come to you as a being of light. He knows God’s word and will use it to con you and manipulate your mind and heart. Lucifer doesn’t come to you to say that God does not exist, he comes to you to tell you that God is not who he really is and tricking you to believe lies thinking you are following God’s way and plan.
The only way to avoid this is to not depend on what a man tells you is the meaning of the word (worshiping false idols), open the book up yourself and find out the truth. God will give you his answers directly to you if you will only listen…
A good place to start is… 1 Timothy 4
It proves what I just said…
God Bless All!!!
But to go so far as to act as if you were raised by wolves and attack each other is contrary to your beliefs.
Where is God in this? Jesus did not teach this to you, yet you claim to follow him???
Any Christian knows that their actions are their testimony. Do you want this to be your testimony…your example of God’s love?
Contrary to what you think, angels and demons are the same thing and have the same abilities…they just have different motives. Hence, you have to learn to discern the spirit, because Lucifer was God’s most beautiful angel and right hand man so to speak. He will come to you as a being of light. He knows God’s word and will use it to con you and manipulate your mind and heart. Lucifer doesn’t come to you to say that God does not exist, he comes to you to tell you that God is not who he really is and tricking you to believe lies thinking you are following God’s way and plan.
The only way to avoid this is to not depend on what a man tells you is the meaning of the word (worshiping false idols), open the book up yourself and find out the truth. God will give you his answers directly to you if you will only listen…
A good place to start is… 1 Timothy 4
It proves what I just said…
God Bless All!!!
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