Anglican Bishops Say "Sorry"

[HagiaSophia]

Episcopal bishops expressed “sincere regret” Thursday for consecrating the denomination’s first openly gay bishop without full consideration for overseas Anglicans who objected, and said they prayed for forgiveness so they could maintain ties with sister churches around the world.

However, U.S. church leaders took no action on requests from Anglican leaders for moratoriums on consecrating gay bishops in same-sex relationships and on authorizing official prayer services for same-gender couples. The bishops said they did not want to “act in haste.”

The bishops issued their statement after a two-day meeting in Salt Lake City, where they discussed recommendations from an emergency Anglican panel on how the 77 million-member Anglican Communion can remain unified despite deep disagreements over homosexuality. The 2.3 million-member Episcopal Church is the U.S. branch of Anglicanism.
“We as the House of Bishops express our sincere regret for the pain, the hurt and the damage caused to our Anglican bonds of affection by certain actions of our church,” the bishops said. “We express this regret as a sign of our deep desire for and commitment to continuation of our partnership in the Anglican Communion.”

Utah Bishop Carolyn Tanner Irish said the statement was not an apology for consecrating New Hampshire Bishop V. Gene Robinson, who lives with his longtime male partner, but for the tensions that his election created. He was consecrated in November 2003.

In October, an Anglican panel released recommendations for resolving discord within the communion over homosexuality in a document known as the Windsor Report. It will be discussed in several worldwide meetings before any action is taken. Anglican leaders are scheduled to gather next month in Northern Ireland to consider the report further.
Conservative bishops who had boycotted earlier bishops’ meetings participated in the Salt Lake City gathering, but they left disappointed that no further action was taken. Pittsburgh Bishop Robert Duncan, who leads a network of dissenting conservative dioceses, said the bishops use “graceful language” but their inaction “contradicts the words.”

startribune.com/stories/614/5185852.html

 

[JKirkLVNV]

HagiaSophia:

However, U.S. church leaders took no action on requests from Anglican leaders for moratoriums on consecrating gay bishops in same-sex relationships and on authorizing official prayer services for same-gender couples. The bishops said they did not want to "act in haste."

\

Fell…on…floor…laughing…cannot…get…up!!!

 

[HagiaSophia]

Fell…on…floor…laughing…cannot…get…up!!!

Every once inawhile bishops say something so funny without meaning to that I just roar - I mean, what on earth can they be thinking ?

 

[Fidelis]

HagiaSophia:

Utah Bishop Carolyn Tanner Irish said the statement was not an apology for consecrating New Hampshire Bishop V. Gene Robinson, who lives with his longtime male partner, but for the tensions that his election created. He was consecrated in November 2003.

In other words, they’re not sorry they did it, just that people were outraged and called them on it. That’s like being sorry that the murder you commited resulted in a death, but not about commiting the murder in the first place. PUHleeze!

 

[Joe_Kelley]

Fidelis:

In other words, they’re not sorry they did it, just that people were outraged and called them on it. That’s like being sorry that the murder you commited resulted in a death, but not about commiting the murder in the first place. PUHleeze!

This* I am not sorry I did it; just sorry that people were offended.* seems to be standard for all offending speakers these days. I rate it right up there with Not sorry I did it; just sorry I got caught.

 

[sette]

May our Lord 4give them & keep our true,holy,pure Catholic church
free of such evil ! yes in some way its funny but at the same time it was satan who did this so please pray that the hurt of the anglican’s can be helped and that they can see the true Light of or Lord Jesus in his Catholic church. peace

 

[QuicumqueVult]

Yes, the Protestant Episcopal Church USA is apostate. When her bishops promote evil, she becomes evil herself.

But there are dissenters, in the good sense of the term. Perhaps it is true that there can be “good” dissent from the teaching and decisions of the college of bishops if and only if one is not a Roman Catholic. Be thankful, therefore, faithful American Roman Catholics, that dissent from your American bishops is contrary to God’s moral will. But your bishops are far from monolithically magisterially compliant.

Here is the text of the dissenters’ statement. You might have to scroll down a bit. It also appears that the Church of England backs Windsor. That means they are on the right side of the fence:

aacblog.classicalanglican.net/archives/000440.html

I have heard some say the “Anglican experiment” is failing. There is ample evidence to support that claim these days, at least in North America (Canada and US). But I fear there is a darkness more widespread than that engulfing my own ecclesial ethos. Pray that is does infect Holy Mother Church as it has those “separated brethren” who often appear so much like you, miters, incense and all…

Of course, in theory at least, evil cannot overcome the Church founded by Jesus Christ. Yes, I am strongly considering the logic and evidence of that claim. Pray for me as well.

 

[Hesychios]

Dear Father QV

You have my utmost sincerity when I say that I carry your burden deep in my heart, and pray for you and your colleagues.

 

[Hesychios]

“We as the House of Bishops express our sincere regret for the pain, the hurt and the damage caused to our Anglican bonds of affection by certain actions of our church,” the bishops said. “We express this regret as a sign of our deep desire for and commitment to continuation of our partnership in the Anglican Communion.”

This sounds to be rather an immature apology. Sorry for the effects, not the action.

If my kids ever tried to pull this excuse on me I would have to smack 'em…with deep regret.

+T+

 

[Lisa_N]

Hesychios:

This sounds to be rather an immature apology. Sorry for the effects, not the action.

If my kids ever tried to pull this excuse on me I would have to smack 'em…with deep regret.

+T+

It reminds me of the scene in Gone With the Wind where Scarlett is saying she is sorry and Rhett says you’re like the thief that isn’t sorry he stole something, he’s just sorry he got caught.

I read this statement with utter dismay. It’s too late to worry about ‘acting in haste’ that pony has been outside the barn door since Robinson was made bishop.

Lisa N

 

[Catherine_S]

HagiaSophia:

Every once inawhile bishops say something so funny without meaning to that I just roar - I mean, what on earth can they be thinking ?

Too much thinking and not enough praying may just have been the problem ! :yup: !

Shalom,
Catherine

 

[Catherine_S]

QuicumqueVult:

Yes, the Protestant Episcopal Church USA is apostate. When her bishops promote evil, she becomes evil herself.

But there are dissenters, in the good sense of the term. Perhaps it is true that there can be “good” dissent from the teaching and decisions of the college of bishops if and only if one is not a Roman Catholic. Be thankful, therefore, faithful American Roman Catholics, that dissent from your American bishops is contrary to God’s moral will. But your bishops are far from monolithically magisterially compliant.

Here is the text of the dissenters’ statement. You might have to scroll down a bit. It also appears that the Church of England backs Windsor. That means they are on the right side of the fence:

aacblog.classicalanglican.net/archives/000440.html

I have heard some say the “Anglican experiment” is failing. There is ample evidence to support that claim these days, at least in North America (Canada and US). But I fear there is a darkness more widespread than that engulfing my own ecclesial ethos. Pray that is does infect Holy Mother Church as it has those “separated brethren” who often appear so much like you, miters, incense and all…

Of course, in theory at least, evil cannot overcome the Church founded by Jesus Christ. Yes, I am strongly considering the logic and evidence of that claim.** Pray for me as well./**QUOTE]

Hello…I am deeply saddened for all Anglicans who were and are against this decision. My heart goes out to them. This paticular evil** infests everywhere** and it has infested the Catholic Church too. Recent scandals have attested to the presence of this darkness and to believe that it no longer exists within the Catholic Church **is to be blind. **The blessing for Catholics is that the teachings on the practice of homosexuality will never and can never be changed. The Catholic Church is not a democratic system and these beliefs regarding homosexuality and the practice of it are set in stone !! This has indeed caused much suffering down through the ages as has many other teachings within the Catholic Church… abortion etc. but the Church has not budged and it will not budge in the future.

You are in my prayers…Christ will lead you to where He wants you to be…trust Him always.…all will be well and all will be well :yup: ! He is building His Church just as He said that He would !

God Bless You,
Shalom,
Catherine

 

[QuicumqueVult]

“Less thinking and more praying”?

Actually, I beg respectfully to differ with you on that last point. The House of Bishops pray quite regularly when they meet together. They pray many of the same prayers and use the same liturgies – at least from the standpoint of liturgical history – as their Roman Catholic and Eastern Orthodox “apostolic” colleagues. They are quite circumspect that all deliberations be done in an atmosphere of prayer, and truly desire to know the mind of God. But their conclusions are sometimes inimical to the Mind of God, at least if Catholic Moral Theology is an expression of revealed truth (which,of course, it is).

The problem is epistemological, involving why they believe what they believe. Their theory of knowledge and justification (i.e., what they know and why they believe it is true) is flawed. Because they do not acknowledge – some would say, possess – a Magisterium or teaching office that is universally present and applicable to all Christians at all times, they truly have no access to truth except what is empirically discernible (Biblical and historical studies and “dialogue”, etc.). They are unduly enamored by “scientific research” which looks at available sources without deferring to Tradition. They think, for instance, that God the Holy Spirit might reveal new truth to them that contradicts earlier Church teaching. That’s a violation of the criterion of the eternality of truth. They also presume to judge truth unilaterally, by province, for instance (e.g., ECUSA). That’s a violation of the ubiquity, the catholicity, of truth. I refer to the ancient “Vincentian Canon” named for St. Vincent of Lerins, viz., the Catholic Faith is that which is believed everywhere (ubique), always (semper) and by all (quod omnibus).

The Windsor Report (WR) is a work that seeks to resolve these weaknesses in Anglican epistemology because it is a recovery of the notion of Communion so aptly retrieved in Vatican II’s Lumen Gentium. The only hope for Anglicanism is set forth in that Report. It is a means of regaining what it means to be Catholic in the doctrinal as well as the liturgical sense (the Oxford Movement, and the Liturgical Movement to some degree, was a recovery of liturgical catholicity). Now we must learn again how to think like Catholics, not like Americans or English or Africans, or whatever. If we fail to embrace WR’s recommendations, especially the “Instruments of Authority,” we will fail to persist in anything resembling the Catholic Church. In that case, the only thing faithful Catholic Anglicans can do is leave for a Communion that is functionally Catholic. In a word, Anglicanism will fail to demonstrate the mark of catholicity and cease to be a legitimate expression of Christianity (some argue of course that we never bore that mark at all, but as a priest I must admit it is present for now, though possibly waning). Were it not for the WR, I don’t think I could hope with rational confidence for any outcome that will allow me to remain in Anglican Orders.

To put it another way, one cannot pray without thinking. And one cannot think true thoughts about divine revelation without the Holy Spirit guiding them. And one cannot claim reliably to have the Holy Spirit’s guidance without being in Communion with the entire apostolic college of bishops (collegium episcopi). And ideally this involves Communion with the Bishop of Rome, something the Orthodox presently lack, but are closer to having, and we as Anglicans admit is better than not having, at least recently (see the Lambeth Conference 1998 resolution and the ARCIC document “The Gift of Authority” which seek in the long term to come into communion with the See of Rome).

Public prayer without a Magisterium is mere politics.

 

[Catherine_S]

“Less thinking and more praying”?

Actually, I beg respectfully to differ with you on that last point. The House of Bishops pray quite regularly when they meet together. They pray many of the same prayers and use the same liturgies – at least from the standpoint of liturgical history – as their Roman Catholic and Eastern Orthodox “apostolic” colleagues. They are quite circumspect that all deliberations be done in an atmosphere of prayer, and truly desire to know the mind of God. But their conclusions are sometimes inimical to the Mind of God, at least if Catholic Moral Theology is an expression of revealed truth (which,of course, it is).

The problem is epistemological, involving why they believe what they believe. Their theory of knowledge and justification (i.e., what they know and why they believe it is true) is flawed. Because they do not acknowledge – some would say, possess – a Magisterium or teaching office that is universally present and applicable to all Christians at all times, they truly have no access to truth except what is empirically discernible (Biblical and historical studies and “dialogue”, etc.). They are unduly enamored by “scientific research” which looks at available sources without deferring to Tradition. They think, for instance, that God the Holy Spirit might reveal new truth to them that contradicts earlier Church teaching. That’s a violation of the criterion of the eternality of truth. They also presume to judge truth unilaterally, by province, for instance (e.g., ECUSA). That’s a violation of the ubiquity, the catholicity, of truth. I refer to the ancient “Vincentian Canon” named for St. Vincent of Lerins, viz., the Catholic Faith is that which is believed everywhere (ubique), always (semper) and by all (quod omnibus).

The Windsor Report (WR) is a work that seeks to resolve these weaknesses in Anglican epistemology because it is a recovery of the notion of Communion so aptly retrieved in Vatican II’s Lumen Gentium. The only hope for Anglicanism is set forth in that Report. It is a means of regaining what it means to be Catholic in the doctrinal as well as the liturgical sense (the Oxford Movement, and the Liturgical Movement to some degree, was a recovery of liturgical catholicity). Now we must learn again how to think like Catholics, not like Americans or English or Africans, or whatever. If we fail to embrace WR’s recommendations, especially the “Instruments of Authority,” we will fail to persist in anything resembling the Catholic Church. In that case, the only thing faithful Catholic Anglicans can do is leave for a Communion that is functionally Catholic. In a word, Anglicanism will fail to demonstrate the mark of catholicity and cease to be a legitimate expression of Christianity (some argue of course that we never bore that mark at all, but as a priest I must admit it is present for now, though possibly waning). Were it not for the WR, I don’t think I could hope with rational confidence for any outcome that will allow me to remain in Anglican Orders.

To put it another way, one cannot pray without thinking. And one cannot think true thoughts about divine revelation without the Holy Spirit guiding them. And one cannot claim reliably to have the Holy Spirit’s guidance without being in Communion with the entire apostolic college of bishops (collegium episcopi). And ideally this involves Communion with the Bishop of Rome, something the Orthodox presently lack, but are closer to having, and we as Anglicans admit is better than not having, at least recently (see the Lambeth Conference 1998 resolution and the ARCIC document “The Gift of Authority” which seek in the long term to come into communion with the See of Rome).

Public prayer without a Magisterium is mere politics.

Thank you for your thoughts and for sharing Father. I will keep you and all Anglican Clergy in prayer. Christ is near !
John 14 :18-21

God Bless You,
Shalom,
Catherine

 

[All4lifetoo]

Too much thinking and not enough praying may just have been the problem ! :yup: !

Shalom,
Catherine

Too much thinking was definitly not the problem!

 

[CrusaderNY]

As Catholics, with an almost 50% Gay priesthood by most accounts, who are we to be laughing at anyone, especially the Anglicans who are at least acknowledging the issue. The Catholic code of Canon Law of 1961 forbids the ordination of any homosexual seminary student, but now we have forgotten about that small bit of Canon Law and now there is a “reinterpretation” and as long as they remain “chaste” they can remain. How much more in lawsuits and how many more church closing until we wake up and stop the madness. Nothing funny here my friends

 

[CrusaderNY]

As Catholics, with an almost 50% Gay priesthood by most accounts, who are we to be laughing at anyone, especially the Anglicans who are at least acknowledging the issue. The Catholic code of Canon Law of 1961 forbids the ordination of any homosexual seminary student, but now we have forgotten about that small bit of Canon Law and now there is a “reinterpretation” and as long as they remain “chaste” they can remain. How much more in lawsuits and how many more church closing until we wake up and stop the madness. Nothing funny here my friends

HagiaSophia:

Episcopal bishops expressed “sincere regret” Thursday for consecrating the denomination’s first openly gay bishop without full consideration for overseas Anglicans who objected, and said they prayed for forgiveness so they could maintain ties with sister churches around the world.

However, U.S. church leaders took no action on requests from Anglican leaders for moratoriums on consecrating gay bishops in same-sex relationships and on authorizing official prayer services for same-gender couples. The bishops said they did not want to “act in haste.”

The bishops issued their statement after a two-day meeting in Salt Lake City, where they discussed recommendations from an emergency Anglican panel on how the 77 million-member Anglican Communion can remain unified despite deep disagreements over homosexuality. The 2.3 million-member Episcopal Church is the U.S. branch of Anglicanism.
“We as the House of Bishops express our sincere regret for the pain, the hurt and the damage caused to our Anglican bonds of affection by certain actions of our church,” the bishops said. “We express this regret as a sign of our deep desire for and commitment to continuation of our partnership in the Anglican Communion.”

Utah Bishop Carolyn Tanner Irish said the statement was not an apology for consecrating New Hampshire Bishop V. Gene Robinson, who lives with his longtime male partner, but for the tensions that his election created. He was consecrated in November 2003.

In October, an Anglican panel released recommendations for resolving discord within the communion over homosexuality in a document known as the Windsor Report. It will be discussed in several worldwide meetings before any action is taken. Anglican leaders are scheduled to gather next month in Northern Ireland to consider the report further.
Conservative bishops who had boycotted earlier bishops’ meetings participated in the Salt Lake City gathering, but they left disappointed that no further action was taken. Pittsburgh Bishop Robert Duncan, who leads a network of dissenting conservative dioceses, said the bishops use “graceful language” but their inaction “contradicts the words.”

startribune.com/stories/614/5185852.html