Anglican Bp Robinson

[HagiaSophia]

Gay Episcopal bishop says ‘Holy Spirit led us’
By Cathy Lynn Grossman, USA TODAY
The openly gay Episcopal bishop whose ordination threatens to fracture the worldwide Anglican Communion said Wednesday he “genuinely and deeply regrets” the pain this caused some believers, but he sees no need to repent because “the Holy Spirit led us.”

Robinson: Report “opens the door” to discussion about gays in the church.
By Mary Altaffer, AP

New Hampshire Bishop V. Gene Robinson spoke out in response to a report on reconciliation issued Monday by an international commission of church leaders.

The report criticized the Episcopal Church USA and the Anglican Church of Canada, where a diocese had begun blessing same-sex marriages, for failing to consult with their international brethren. It also rapped international bishops who branded the American actions as a “satanic attack” on the faith.

The commission that authored the report was made up of 17 leaders of the 77 million-member worldwide Anglican Communion. It told the U.S. and Canadian churches to hold off electing or ordaining any more openly gay bishops. They said the action had wounded the communion by failing “to offer an explanation to, or consult meaningfully with, the communion as a whole about the significant development of theology.”

Robinson also said Wednesday that the “big news” in the report is that it “opens the door to worldwide discussion” about the roles of gays and lesbians in the church.

Robinson, 57, a divorced father who lives with his male partner, pointed out that the moratorium on ordaining gays is not a permanent ban. “Moratoria get lifted,” he said.

He said he finds it “astoundingly important” that there was no call to repentance and that the report stresses the great value of remaining in communion — willing to meet and pray together."

usatoday.com/news/nation/2004-10-21-bishop_x.htm

 

[Minerva]

people need to repent for protesting the ordination of an openly gay and adulterous man, but there’s no call for repentence of homosexual acts, even though those and not the former are condemned by scripture and tradition? the anglican “church” is such a joke that I’d laugh at this if it weren’t so sad.

 

[La_Chiara]

Robinson’s arrogance and pride is exactly why Protestant denominations are constantly fragmenting. Can people who are unable to subordinate themselves to a their own church authority on earth really subordinate themselves to God? I think not. Robinson seems to be saying “I know best of all people on earth.” That is true arrogance.

 

[Lisa_N]

La Chiara:

Robinson’s arrogance and pride is exactly why Protestant denominations are constantly fragmenting. Can people who are unable to subordinate themselves to a their own church authority on earth really subordinate themselves to God? I think not. Robinson seems to be saying “I know best of all people on earth.” That is true arrogance.

Robinson raises hubris to an art form. I volunteer for a lecture series held at a local Episcopalian cathedral. I will be curious if this issue is brought up at all. This is a VERY liberal congregation of a very liberal church so I suspect their sympathies are with Mr Robinson.

How sad but you are right that this is a reason such denominations are circling the drain.

LisaN

 

[mercygate]

How is it that the Holy spirit privately moves people into these bizarre positions but the Holy Spirit doesn’t move them to observe the 10 Commandments?

Signed,
ex-Episcopalian

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

I have no doubt that a spirit is at work here, I just am not too sure how Holy that spirit is.


Saint Michael the Archangel, defend us in our day of battle. Be our protection against the wickedness and snares of the devil. May God rebuke him, we humbly pray. And do thou, O Prince of the Heavenly Hosts, thrust into Hell Satan and all the evil spirits who prowl through the world seeking the ruin of souls. Amen.
:bowdown2:

 

[Michael_C]

mercygate:

How is it that the Holy spirit privately moves people into these bizarre positions but the Holy Spirit doesn’t move them to observe the 10 Commandments?

Signed,
ex-Episcopalian

Excellent point! This is about ego and nothing more.

 

[Lisa_N]

mercygate:

How is it that the Holy spirit privately moves people into these bizarre positions but the Holy Spirit doesn’t move them to observe the 10 Commandments?

Signed,
ex-Episcopalian

Same lame excuse used to uphold a lesbian Methodist minister in the early part of this dispute. Although their book of Discipline SPECIFICALLY says “No practicing homosexual may function as clergy” Karen Dauman told her bishop she was a lesbian (everyone knew but she demanded they take a stand). The original board hearing the issue “prayed about it” and decided Ms Dauman had not violated any rules. Huh??? This was eventually overturned at their General Conference with threats of schism.

It’s so sad to see these churches apparently concerned with political correctness over scripture. Dont EVEN get me started on their abortion policy. No wonder they are losing members.

Lisa N (an ex Methodist now in RCIA)

 

[HagiaSophia]

mercygate:

How is it that the Holy spirit privately moves people into these bizarre positions but the Holy Spirit doesn’t move them to observe the 10 Commandments?

Signed,
ex-Episcopalian

I wonder about all these “spirit” visitations - and like yourself sometimes think the wrong number is dialing. But the ego of someone who would split his own church, and then have the chutzpah to tell us that the “Holy Spirit” has blessed him with this knowledge as if that is some kind of reference point.

 

[HagiaSophia]

La Chiara:

Robinson’s arrogance and pride is exactly why Protestant denominations are constantly fragmenting. Can people who are unable to subordinate themselves to a their own church authority on earth really subordinate themselves to God? I think not. Robinson seems to be saying “I know best of all people on earth.” That is true arrogance.

Whatever happened to the kind of church leaders and many of our saints who said “obedience is my job, God will work out the rest” - they act as if God has no part in anything going on. It’s all about them, for them, with them, and because of them. No Lord in the equation.

 

[Leo44]

HagiaSophia:

Whatever happened to the kind of church leaders and many of our saints who said “obedience is my job, God will work out the rest” - they act as if God has no part in anything going on. It’s all about them, for them, with them, and because of them. No Lord in the equation.

The first big one was Luther, and it has been down hill from then on.

 

[Contarini]

:This was eventually overturned at their General Conference with threats of schism.:

Actually, I think the suggestion of “amicable separation” came at the end of General Conference, after the Dammann issue had been dealt with. (She herself can’t be put on trial again, I believe, but GC has made it clear that in the future the line of approach taken by her defense is not acceptable.)

Actually Methodism on this issue is somewhat like Catholicism–it has fairly clear teaching but lots of people are disregarding it. I’m not saying it’s in the same boat, only that on the homosexual issue Catholics don’t have a whole lot of ground to point fingers at the UMC (you can point them at us Episcopalians all you like). The abortion issue is another matter, although the UMC has been moving in the right direction there as well. I think there’s a good possibility that in the end the evangelicals will win. What that’s going to do with the high-church movement within Methodism, many of whose members are fairly liberal, I’m not sure. I had the privilege of spending a number of years as a grad student at Duke, which is a stronghold of high-church Methodism that is actually quite conservative and becoming more so (I’m speaking of the Div School, not the university as a whole). Unfortunately, this is not the norm within the UMC generally. But with people like Oden at the head of the conservative movement, there are some encouraging signs.

In Christ,

Edwin

 

[Gerry_Hunter]

There are many examples that one could cite where the members of the Church Militant have struggled to be faithful to a given teaching of the Church, in the culture in which they find themselves. The Church, being the Church, has always proclaimed the truth she has received. However, what we have here is a phenomenon whereby, at the bidding of the culture, a body that claims to be Christian is modifying historic teachings and truths to conform to the leadings of the culture. This is the essence of what’s happening, and why the term “evil” is appropriately applied to it.

When I worshipped with the Anglicans, I wrote a lot of stuff against that, and came to correspond with an Anglican priest in Florida who also wrote against it. After the most recent failure of the Anglican leadership to come to grips with their communion’s rampant apostasy, this Anglican priest wrote the following:

• … We can no longer serve God within the Episcopal Church or the Anglican Communion. We can no longer bring people to Christ through the Episcopal Church. It would be blasphemy to bring an innocent soul to a place where every immoral vice has replaced the Word of God.

Where is God leading us? We know that it is the will of the Lord that His Church be One. Recent events have sent all of us a clear message that the union of the Church of God will not be under the leadership of the Archbishop of Canterbury.

These times of turmoil make us appreciate more and more the preservation of the central doctrines of the Gospel by the Church of Rome. Here we find the same faith which preserved the Gospel and witnessed for Christ through every century. Our Lord called Peter the Rock, and it is in the successor to the Rock of Peter that we can find our shelter.

When John Henry Newman left Oxford for the last time he later wrote in his Apologia Pro Vita Sua that he left with the fond memories of his service there. He said that he never returned. He described his entry into the Roman Catholic Church as entering a safe harbor after a storm at sea.

I have visited with Bishop Galeone of the Diocese of St. Augustine, and I attend mass regularly at St. Michael’s Catholic Church. For me a new day has dawned. I feel the presence of the Lord as He leads me in the paths of righteousness. I am no longer surrounded by the forces of heresy and darkness. With Newman, I have entered a safe harbor after a storm at sea.*

(As an aside, Bishop Galeone, on reading the writings of this man, determined that he could be received into the Church without further instruction.)

The Church is enriched by this man’s presence among us. His story in this dreadful Anglican situation should remind all of us just what a gift of grace our being a part of the See of Peter actually is.

Blessings,

Gerry

 

[HagiaSophia]

Gerry Hunter:

There are many examples that one could cite where the members of the Church Militant have struggled to be faithful to a given teaching of the Church, in the culture in which they find themselves. The Church, being the Church, has always proclaimed the truth she has received. However, what we have here is a phenomenon whereby, at the bidding of the culture, a body that claims to be Christian is modifying historic teachings and truths to conform to the leadings of the culture. This is the essence of what’s happening, and why the term “evil” is appropriately applied to it.

When I worshipped with the Anglicans, I wrote a lot of stuff against that, and came to correspond with an Anglican priest in Florida who also wrote against it. After the most recent failure of the Anglican leadership to come to grips with their communion’s rampant apostasy, this Anglican priest wrote the following:

• … We can no longer serve God within the Episcopal Church or the Anglican Communion. We can no longer bring people to Christ through the Episcopal Church. It would be blasphemy to bring an innocent soul to a place where every immoral vice has replaced the Word of God.

Where is God leading us? We know that it is the will of the Lord that His Church be One. Recent events have sent all of us a clear message that the union of the Church of God will not be under the leadership of the Archbishop of Canterbury.

These times of turmoil make us appreciate more and more the preservation of the central doctrines of the Gospel by the Church of Rome. Here we find the same faith which preserved the Gospel and witnessed for Christ through every century. Our Lord called Peter the Rock, and it is in the successor to the Rock of Peter that we can find our shelter.

When John Henry Newman left Oxford for the last time he later wrote in his Apologia Pro Vita Sua that he left with the fond memories of his service there. He said that he never returned. He described his entry into the Roman Catholic Church as entering a safe harbor after a storm at sea.

I have visited with Bishop Galeone of the Diocese of St. Augustine, and I attend mass regularly at St. Michael’s Catholic Church. For me a new day has dawned. I feel the presence of the Lord as He leads me in the paths of righteousness. I am no longer surrounded by the forces of heresy and darkness. With Newman, I have entered a safe harbor after a storm at sea.*

(As an aside, Bishop Galeone, on reading the writings of this man, determined that he could be received into the Church without further instruction.)

The Church is enriched by this man’s presence among us. His story in this dreadful Anglican situation should remind all of us just what a gift of grace our being a part of the See of Peter actually is.

Blessings,

Gerry

When I read letters like this, I am so glad they have a place to come; but make no mistake, we are fighting a cultural war within our own Church which thanks to the man wearing the ring of the Fisherman has kept from splitting us to this very day. The churches, the hierarchy and the congregations all need our prayers. Christianity is fighting a war on more than one front and I cannot for the life of me, think what it is going to take, to shake some of them awake as they slumber in their pews, have their fellowship, and think all is well.

 

[joshua1]

I am sorry, but this whole thing makes me sick. If this man had been living in the same house openly with a woman, It would have been scandal and the man would have been thrown out on a rail. Go figure?

 

[Lisa_N]

joshua1:

I am sorry, but this whole thing makes me sick. If this man had been living in the same house openly with a woman, It would have been scandal and the man would have been thrown out on a rail. Go figure?

Be careful what you ask for. This is an argument used for gay “marriage.” IOW if gays were allowed to marry then Robinson’s partner would not be an issue. All I can say is BLECH!!!

Lisa N

 

[Lisa_N]

:This was eventually overturned at their General Conference with threats of schism.:

Actually, I think the suggestion of “amicable separation” came at the end of General Conference, after the Dammann issue had been dealt with. (She herself can’t be put on trial again, I believe, but GC has made it clear that in the future the line of approach taken by her defense is not acceptable.)

Actually Methodism on this issue is somewhat like Catholicism–it has fairly clear teaching but lots of people are disregarding it. I’m not saying it’s in the same boat, only that on the homosexual issue Catholics don’t have a whole lot of ground to point fingers at the UMC (you can point them at us Episcopalians all you like). The abortion issue is another matter, although the UMC has been moving in the right direction there as well. I think there’s a good possibility that in the end the evangelicals will win. What that’s going to do with the high-church movement within Methodism, many of whose members are fairly liberal, I’m not sure. I had the privilege of spending a number of years as a grad student at Duke, which is a stronghold of high-church Methodism that is actually quite conservative and becoming more so (I’m speaking of the Div School, not the university as a whole). Unfortunately, this is not the norm within the UMC generally. But with people like Oden at the head of the conservative movement, there are some encouraging signs.

In Christ,

Edwin

Edwin, I appreciate your thoughtful post and I have wrestled with this issue because I do believe you are right and that EVENTUALLY the UMC will go back to its roots. Unfortunately I live in a very liberal state and I think our version of Methodism reflects our geographical location. I was in the south and happened upon a radio broadcast from a Methodist church. I was amazed at the difference between that church’s sermons and those preached here. It was like we are completely different denominations depending on where we are located.

The gay issue points more to the UMC’s inability to take a stand even when their own rules and scripture supports that stand. What bothered me most about the Daumann case was the way it was “well it’s not OK” “yes it is” “even if it’s not she’s a nice woman and we don’t want to take her congregation away” So much equivocation.

Then after the dust settled, Daumann said she was “taking a leave to care for her ill son.” IOW she was IMO like Robinson, more interested in pushing an agenda than demonstrating the humility and concern that a pastor should express toward the church and its members. I thought it was disgusting.

The abortion issue was however the dealbreaker. When our former minister said women had a “God given right” to abortion I knew I didn’t belong there.

Lisa N

 

[Gerry_Hunter]

HagiaSophia:

When I read letters like this, I am so glad they have a place to come; but make no mistake, we are fighting a cultural war within our own Church which thanks to the man wearing the ring of the Fisherman has kept from splitting us to this very day. The churches, the hierarchy and the congregations all need our prayers. Christianity is fighting a war on more than one front and I cannot for the life of me, think what it is going to take, to shake some of them awake as they slumber in their pews, have their fellowship, and think all is well.

How right you are! The culture in inimicable to Christianity, and most so to the Catholic Church.

The saddest thing for Anglican Christians is that they are not faced with a soft-peddling of the Truth. That will always be with EVERY Christian. What they are faced with is a tampering with, and changing of, the Truth itself. It is being treated as if it were something that was discovered, rather than something that was revealed. That is the major assumption behind the arguments framed in terms like, “Well, it was true when the Bible was written, but in these advanced times … .”

And I don’t think the man wearing the Fishermans ring is entirely alone in his efforts, which is also good news.

At the end of the day, heretics die out, but the Church and the Truth are forever.

Blessings,

Gerry