Anglican Issues with the Catholic Church

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GKC, I’m sure you’ve posted it before, but do you have any online resources re. the validity of Anglican orders? I’d be especially interested in any documents, hints, or thoughts from the Catholic Church since Apostolicae curae, but also interesting in reading things from outside Rome’s domain.

Also, I’m gathering from the discussion (apart from the unwelcome tangent in this thread), that liturgy is of paramount importance to Anglicans. What do you think of the possibility ever of there being another Western rite within Catholicism?

It certainly is a shame the break originally happened. Even a Catholic who believes Anglicans are not within the Church would have to admit that the Holy Spirit, as he does all the time, had to have been working outside of the Church to inspire such beautiful means of worship.

In Christ,
mp
I don’t use the net for research, much, myself (Books, I must have books), and know of no sites I can cite, though I recall one being given me, containing a document from the Roman perspective, from around the first part of the 20th century. I probably bookmarked it, but it was not convincing, and I have lost track of it. For me, the works of Hughes and Clark (most particularly) are essential to understanding the respective positions.

However, I can highly recommend this site:

accipepotestatem.com/

which is run by a friend of mine, who knows more about *AC *than anyone I know, and more Latin than my daughter, who taught it for 5 years. I supplied a few bits of documentation to his collection, in the form of relevant books by Hughes, Dix, and one or two others, plus other material. He and I are not in complete agreement, and when we discussed it in the past, he invariably was able to pound me through the floor. On some pertinent points, we do agree.

I can suggest browsing the first 4 essays for some insight and surprises. The author is a traditionally-inclined RC, fully assenting to the magisterium, and makes some interesting points. Certainly, the comparision of the Pontificale Romanum, the Anglian Ordinal, as from the 1928 BCP, and the revised Pontificale Romanum, as of 1968, is most instructive.

It strikes me that, had Anglicanism not run off the track 30+ years ago, the Anglican-Roman Catholic International Commission might have produced an interesting document on the subject of orders by now. But what had begun with high hopes, under Paul VI and ++Michael Ramsey, was turned into exercises in futility, as official Anglicanism retreated from Catholcism, across the board.

Anglicans vary on their attitude toward liturgy, as they vary in other ways. Our basically Anglo-Catholic parish also has a read Prayer Book Service on Sunday, after the normally sung mass, for the 8-10 folks who find a high church liturgical approach too rich for their blood. So, while liturgy, to an orthodox Anglican, is essential, the liturgy in question is not always identical.

By another Western Rite, do you mean an Anglican Rite (as opposed to the current Anglican Use)?

I agree with you that an Anglican High Mass, with bells, smells, and yells, can be a beautiful thing. I get it every Sunday.

I thank you for the questions, and the kind words.

Pax, frater.

GKC
 
I read the legend with much fascination, but in older years it seems isolated and very far in time from the primitive church…where women from heretical groups were ordained and condemned.

Re: women’s ordination, I would be curious to read responses to the legend of St. Brigit. I once shared the opinion of a priest friend of mine that women were invalid matter for the sacrament, but the legend of St. Brigit of Kildare who, it is said, received episcopal consecration at the hands of St. Mel, convinced me otherwise. Granted, it’s a legend and not official teaching, but it seems to indicate that the popular mind of the church as expressed in her legendarium understood women to be worthy of episcopal dignity, that is, the church could conceive of a woman as valid matter.

Anyway.

Under the Mercy,
Mark

Deo Gratias!
 
It’s hard for me to understand why so many non-Catholics (Anglicans included) are so hesitant to accept the truth- that the Catholic church is the only one true church, and choose to live in doubts and confusions.

Be angry, and sin not… Give not place to the devil. :cool:
Er, I’m a Catholic and I understand. They sincerely do not believe the Catholic Church is the only one true church. It’s just like you do not believe the Anglican Church is legitimate. Pretty simple.
 
Er, I’m a Catholic and I understand. They sincerely do not believe the Catholic Church is the only one true church. It’s just like you do not believe the Anglican Church is legitimate. Pretty simple.
That’s pretty close. Some Anglicans believe that they are in the Catholic church, communion with Rome not being necessary for that.

GKC

*Anglicanus Catholicus *
 
It’s hard for me to understand why so many non-Catholics (Anglicans included) are so hesitant to accept the truth- that the Catholic church is the only one true church, and choose to live in doubts and confusions.

I think that goes to the heart of it. Many an Anglican may be able to twist their thinking to buy into the papal system, but few and far between are those who can conscientously deny that Anglican and Eastern Churches are churches.
 
GKC, I’m sure you’ve posted it before, but do you have any online resources re. the validity of Anglican orders? I’d be especially interested in any documents, hints, or thoughts from the Catholic Church since Apostolicae curae, but also interesting in reading things from outside Rome’s domain.

Also, I’m gathering from the discussion (apart from the unwelcome tangent in this thread), that liturgy is of paramount importance to Anglicans. What do you think of the possibility ever of there being another Western rite within Catholicism?

It certainly is a shame the break originally happened. Even a Catholic who believes Anglicans are not within the Church would have to admit that the Holy Spirit, as he does all the time, had to have been working outside of the Church to inspire such beautiful means of worship.

In Christ,
mp
mp, there’s a* huge* thread on anglican orders on the non-c forum; it may still be going. I’m sure that it contains references, in addition to a lot of posts by GKC.
 
mp, there’s a* huge* thread on anglican orders on the non-c forum; it may still be going. I’m sure that it contains references, in addition to a lot of posts by GKC.
References, maybe, but as for online stuff, that addresses the issue, I can’t recall any. Aside from finding *Apostolicae Curea *and *Saepius Officio *on line, I don’t know of much useful, scholarly pertinent material.

If there were such references in that thread, I don’t remember them.

GKC
 
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