Annullment Question

[kcurious]

Hello everybody. I have a question regarding annullment. I am involved with a man that is divorced and is now going through annullment. Their realtionship was not at all healthy and they both agreed they should not have been married, however they did not get the marriage annulled after the divorce, thinking they would remarry each other someday. Now neither wants any chance of saving the marriage and she filed a “final annullment”. His explanation to me was “This is something she is doing and I (he) have no part in it. She wants this because she one day wants to get married in a Catholic church again, but I (he) don’t.”

My concern is that if she files the annullment, does that mean he can get remarried in a Catholic church, regardless if he wanted to or not? I can see myself marrying/having children with this man and it is very important for me to bring my children up Catholic.

Thank you, I look forward to your insight.

 

[martino]

If the marriage is declared “null” by the tribunal then it is anulled for both of them. One person cannot be married to a person that is not married.

I find it interesting that you would want to marry him knowing that he wishes to still be married to someone else. Or did I misunderstand what you said?

 

[puzzleannie]

If this gentleman is divorced and his first marriage has not been annulled, you are involved in a relationship with a married man. Until his situation is resolved, you are asking for trouble by continuing any kind of dating or courtship.

 

[otm]

My concern is with his statement.

To answer your specific question, however, if she files and is granted an annullment, the marriage is determined never to have been a sacramental marriage; and it applies to both parties as a sacramental marriage takes two people. In a marriage, one party cannot have a sacramental marriage and the other party not have one.

More specifically, you have raised a red flag. He appears to want to have nothing to do with the Cathoilic Church. You are talking about the possibility of marrying someone who wants nothing to do with the Church and at the same time talking about raising your children Catholic. To do so would be to raise children in a household where their father is at the minimum ambivalent about the Church, and possibly downright hostile. Either message that he sends to the children will be a direct contradiction to what you will be trying to teach them. It is difficult enough to raise children when both parents are on the “same page”. You are talking about a situation where you are not on the “same page”, and perhaps not even in the same book. Whether you like to hear it or not, you are inviting untold chaos and heartache.

If nothing else, you need to talk to some Catholics who are in similar situations; and I would include Catholics who are married to Christian non-Catholics of strong faith. They will tell you of the problems and heartaches they have encountered.

I would sugest some serious soul searching as to why you are dating someone who has said that they do not want to be married in the Catholic Church. You might want to talk with a marriage counselor, at least initially by yourself, to sort out what is really going on and driving you in this direction. You may also want to bring him into the counseling at some point, to find out what is driving him. I don’t know from your comments if he is Catholic or not; either way, you need to get to the bottom of several issues before you get married

If you don’t, you will get to the bottom of those issues after you are married, almost always with results not to you liking. You will either end up in a long and painful process of resolving the issues, and possibly giving up positions you now strongly hold to keep the marriage afloat, or not resolving the issues and living in the ambivalence of an unhappy marriage, or in divorce court. The issues are not going to go away. There is no magic, and ignoring them won’t solve them.

As an aside, unless you and he can find out and deal with why the first marriage didn’t work, you are very likely to have very similar problems. It is all too easy to blame the other spouse for the problems and the divorce, but it takes two to make the problems.

 

[dumspirospero]

Also, keep in mind, if you are wanting to raise your future children in the Catholic Church…the Catholic Church considers any relations between a man and a woman, in which one or both of the parties involved have not been granted an Annullment by The Catholic Church… they are considered extra-marital affairs and adultery. I am just telling you…because a few years back before I converted, I was living the same kind of life, and I am ashamed for my sins of the past…but I have asked for forgiveness, learned from my mistakes, and moved on.

otm:

My concern is with his statement.

To answer your specific question, however, if she files and is granted an annullment, the marriage is determined never to have been a sacramental marriage; and it applies to both parties as a sacramental marriage takes two people. In a marriage, one party cannot have a sacramental marriage and the other party not have one.

More specifically, you have raised a red flag. He appears to want to have nothing to do with the Cathoilic Church. You are talking about the possibility of marrying someone who wants nothing to do with the Church and at the same time talking about raising your children Catholic. To do so would be to raise children in a household where their father is at the minimum ambivalent about the Church, and possibly downright hostile. Either message that he sends to the children will be a direct contradiction to what you will be trying to teach them. It is difficult enough to raise children when both parents are on the “same page”. You are talking about a situation where you are not on the “same page”, and perhaps not even in the same book. Whether you like to hear it or not, you are inviting untold chaos and heartache.

If nothing else, you need to talk to some Catholics who are in similar situations; and I would include Catholics who are married to Christian non-Catholics of strong faith. They will tell you of the problems and heartaches they have encountered.

I would sugest some serious soul searching as to why you are dating someone who has said that they do not want to be married in the Catholic Church. You might want to talk with a marriage counselor, at least initially by yourself, to sort out what is really going on and driving you in this direction. You may also want to bring him into the counseling at some point, to find out what is driving him. I don’t know from your comments if he is Catholic or not; either way, you need to get to the bottom of several issues before you get married

If you don’t, you will get to the bottom of those issues after you are married, almost always with results not to you liking. You will either end up in a long and painful process of resolving the issues, and possibly giving up positions you now strongly hold to keep the marriage afloat, or not resolving the issues and living in the ambivalence of an unhappy marriage, or in divorce court. The issues are not going to go away. There is no magic, and ignoring them won’t solve them.

As an aside, unless you and he can find out and deal with why the first marriage didn’t work, you are very likely to have very similar problems. It is all too easy to blame the other spouse for the problems and the divorce, but it takes two to make the problems.

 

[Tim_Faremouth]

kcurious:

My concern is that if she files the annullment, does that mean he can get remarried in a Catholic church, regardless if he wanted to or not? I can see myself marrying/having children with this man and it is very important for me to bring my children up Catholic.

Thank you, I look forward to your insight.

My understanding is that once the tribunal grants the annulment, both parties are free to remarry within the Church.

Shalom, Tim

 

[jrabs]

otm:

My concern is with his statement.

To answer your specific question, however, if she files and is granted an annullment, the marriage is determined never to have been a sacramental marriage; and it applies to both parties as a sacramental marriage takes two people. In a marriage, one party cannot have a sacramental marriage and the other party not have one.

More specifically, you have raised a red flag. He appears to want to have nothing to do with the Cathoilic Church. You are talking about the possibility of marrying someone who wants nothing to do with the Church and at the same time talking about raising your children Catholic. To do so would be to raise children in a household where their father is at the minimum ambivalent about the Church, and possibly downright hostile. Either message that he sends to the children will be a direct contradiction to what you will be trying to teach them. It is difficult enough to raise children when both parents are on the “same page”. You are talking about a situation where you are not on the “same page”, and perhaps not even in the same book. Whether you like to hear it or not, you are inviting untold chaos and heartache.

If nothing else, you need to talk to some Catholics who are in similar situations; and I would include Catholics who are married to Christian non-Catholics of strong faith. They will tell you of the problems and heartaches they have encountered.

I would sugest some serious soul searching as to why you are dating someone who has said that they do not want to be married in the Catholic Church. You might want to talk with a marriage counselor, at least initially by yourself, to sort out what is really going on and driving you in this direction. You may also want to bring him into the counseling at some point, to find out what is driving him. I don’t know from your comments if he is Catholic or not; either way, you need to get to the bottom of several issues before you get married

If you don’t, you will get to the bottom of those issues after you are married, almost always with results not to you liking. You will either end up in a long and painful process of resolving the issues, and possibly giving up positions you now strongly hold to keep the marriage afloat, or not resolving the issues and living in the ambivalence of an unhappy marriage, or in divorce court. The issues are not going to go away. There is no magic, and ignoring them won’t solve them.

As an aside, unless you and he can find out and deal with why the first marriage didn’t work, you are very likely to have very similar problems. It is all too easy to blame the other spouse for the problems and the divorce, but it takes two to make the problems.

Bravo. You have summarized this completely. They are tough words to hear when you believe you are in love.

Listen to God. He will never steer you wrong.

Have you given this much thought…what happens if the tribunal does not grant this? It is not a “given” just because the couple have a civil divorce.

Also, the Tribunal may add an extra caveat on to one of the decrees. In my case, my ex can not be married again in the church until he receives extensive psychiatric therapy. I have no idea how often this happens, or what other stipulations they can add to the decree. But this is something to consider also.

 

[otm]

jrabs:

Bravo. You have summarized this completely. They are tough words to hear when you believe you are in love.

Listen to God. He will never steer you wrong.

Have you given this much thought…what happens if the tribunal does not grant this? It is not a “given” just because the couple have a civil divorce.

Also, the Tribunal may add an extra caveat on to one of the decrees. In my case, my ex can not be married again in the church until he receives extensive psychiatric therapy. I have no idea how often this happens, or what other stipulations they can add to the decree. But this is something to consider also.

To throw another bundle on the fire: there is a vast difference between “being in love” and loving.

Being in love is an emotion, one that is so strong that it clouds the reason.

Loving is a choice, not a feeling. Loving uses reason, not emotion, and loving if truly done may result in leaving the one you love, as it may be the most honest answer. Being in love insists that the differences can and will be overcome, or that the differences aren’t really that big, or don’t exist at all.

Loving recognizes those differences, and seeks to work them out before a lifetime committment can be made; or at least assesses whether or not those differences are so great as to go to the very heart of what the relaitonship is to be about.

Marriage, as the Chruch says, is where two become one flesh; and where there are really three; husband, wife, and God. I fear that God is not as prominent in this relationship as He should be, and certainly not in terms of united worship. That bodes not well. Lack of unity in worship is one area that prevents that complete becoming one flesh.

 

[kappydell]

YES, it does not matter who files the annullment. My husband and I married three times…once in IL (he was separated in WI)…once in WI in a civil ceremony (since his annullment was still pending)…once in the Church (his ex-wife filed the annullment, and it took years to come through). I guess we really meant to be married, huh? But that is the short answer. Yes, he can remarry in the Church, even if she got the annullment. The annullment totally makes him unmarried in the eyes of the church. Remember, though, they are hard to get and take a long time. The church takes matrimony VERY seriously and does not want people dissolving marriages willy-nilly. So if he remarries, it will be for LIFE. (There are times that seems hard, but working out problems makes marriages and people stronger)

 

[kcurious]

Thank you all sooo much! This has been beyond the response I had hoped for. After posting, I realized how much this issue meant to me and I have been able to talk … and listen … openly about our situation. We are very much in love, but we need to work on loving each other. Thank you for helping this become clear to me.