Annulment grounds?

[NetNuncio]

Hi folks…I posted this on the AAA forum, but I’m sure they get a million questions like it, so I figured I’d go straight to the readers, hoping a canon lawyer might be amongst you.

Five years ago my wife and I got married. Both of us are Catholic and we were married in the Church. Before we got married, we were having sex and contracepting. The contraception continued for four years into our marriage. She had said that she did not want children. At the time, I had no real opinion on the matter…we were both in our early 20s and kids just seemed a long ways off to me. I figured she would just change her mind. It did bother me that she had said it, but I wrote it off because, like I said, it just didn’t seem like a big deal. We just wanted to have fun. We didn’t want to sit and “waste our time” at a marriage prep class…so we blew it off…the priest was a friend of mine, so he married us anyway. So strong was she that having children wasn’t something she wanted to do that we removed the promises to accept children from the ceremony…in the same way one would do for a couple getting married that was above the age of child bearing.

A few years into the marriage, I began to be convicted of the evils of contraception…not to mention I developed a very, very strong urge to be a father. I convinced her to come with me to a NFP class, but after the one class, we sat in the parking lot and she cried, continuously saying “I just don’t want to be mother…I don’t want kids”. So the contraception continued. Finally, about a year ago, she was convinced to go onto NFP. She’s said that we’d probably have kids, but that it would be years off…and the number of years seems to get larger as her career plans get larger…I’m approaching my 30s, and the chances of fatherhood seem to be fading away.

Recently she and I have grown distant…I’ve tried to cope with my desire to be a father by throwing myself into my work…probably not the smartest choice…but I had started to reach a fairly deep depression and had no where else to turn…if I was going to hurt, I wanted to at least be productive and keep my mind occupied.

Then, at work, I met a beautiful Catholic young woman…she is filled with joy, happiness, and has a very, very strong desire to be a mother. We are absolutely kindred spirits and is someone I could very easily see myself marrying. We’ve both expressed to one another that we have feeling for each other…but we’ve also expressed the strong belief that we should no pursue things unless I was able to get an annulment.

With my moderate knowledge of canon law, I feel that my situation has a very strong case for a declaration of nullity. However, I’d welcome some expert opinions…and yes, I know this is only one side…but the facts are the facts.

 

[Corki]

You will never know for sure until the tribunal rules on the specifics of your case. Are you currently divorced civilly or just behaving badly with this woman at work? Assuming the former, you need to sit down with your pastor or whoever is assigned to initiate annulment files for your parish. Part of his/her job in this role is to look at the initial set of facts and make an initial judgement call as to whether an annulment filing might be appropriate.

 

[joanofarc2008]

We do have a Canon lawyer in our group but to echo what the pp has said you will not know until you actually take it to a tribunal.

 

[NetNuncio]

Please forgive me if “behaving badly” is a euphamism that I am unaware of, but we are not behaving badly…nothing physical has happened, nor will it unless we can and do get married…so about a little pastoral sense for a brother in Christ who’s hurting?

 

[1ke]

You need spiritual counseling from a priest. But certainly NOT from the priest who would bypass premarital preparation and allow the vows to be altered to exclude an essential property of marriage. He needs to be kicked in the behind by his Bishop. Do not go to him for counseling, he is clearly not trustworthy.

 

[faithfully]

Not a clue if you were validly married. I don’t see where anyone deceived the other. Not sure if you can validly be married basically stating your defiance for the purpose of marriage.

You and this other Catholic woman aren’t behaving so CATHOLIC right now. Personally, I wouldn’t be talking about the “evils of contraception” as much as you should be focusing on the evils of adultery while you look for a loop hole to get out of your marriage.

You sound as though you’d only get a divorce if you KNEW you could get an annullement. And I guess if you feel you can’t get an annullement, you just live in some sort of misery, likely making the woman you promised to care for until death do you part miserable, because she’s doing exactly what she said she was going to do.

Finally, I hope this other Catholic woman snaps to SOON. HOW IS A WOMAN expressing her interest to a married man QUALITY Catholic wife material?

 

[Corki]

Please forgive me if “behaving badly” is a euphamism that I am unaware of, but we are not behaving badly…nothing physical has happened, nor will it unless we can and do get married…so about a little pastoral sense for a brother in Christ who’s hurting?

That’s why I asked if you were civilly divorced. If you are married, you should not be expressing your feelings to anyone other than your wife. It doesn’t matter if anything physical is going on. Fidelity is faithfulnes in more than just the bedroom. That’s what I meant by “behaving badly”.

If you are civilly divorced, you still should be cautious about starting anything up with another woman until the tribunal has ruled on your case. Until then you are not a free man and it’s not fair to your wife or this other woman to act as if you are.

 

[joanofarc2008]

Hold up everyone before we get too uncharitable I think maybe the OP is under the impression that the decree of nullity is something that can be done prior to a divorce. There are many Catholics that are under this impression and are surprised to find this out. First, I would stop having these types of conversations with the woman at work. It can only lead to heartache at this point. You are still married and even if you decided to divorce tomorrow and got a decree of nullity you would still be a married man in the eyes of the Church for at least another year or two depending on how long civil divorce takes in your state. Look at my timeline - I have not even reached first of two decisions. Second you need to make a decisions with a spiritual director/counselor/advisor if you are able to save the marriage you are in then third you file for the decree of nullity after the divorce is completed and only after the divorce is completed. You need to see your priest first and quickly.

 

[agnes_therese]

Please forgive me if “behaving badly” is a euphamism that I am unaware of, but we are not behaving badly…nothing physical has happened, nor will it unless we can and do get married…so about a little pastoral sense for a brother in Christ who’s hurting?

“Behaving badly” isn’t just physical. To have conversations, while married, with another woman about the feelings you have for each other . . . Really, think about that. That IS “behaving badly” for a married person. And right now, whether you THINK it was valid or not, you are married.

 

[Winter_Warlock]

Netnuncio,

I understand your problem, I have been married now for almost 18 years and it is ending. At the retreat we discussed kids and my wife told me she wanted certain things first. A degree, good job, then a house, then a upper degree she stalled so much that I realized we were never going to have children. This caused a lot of issues in our marriage, I thought I was able to accept this also, and I think I would have except that she added to our issues. She left the church and started an affair for almost 2 years, telling the other guy she wanted to marry him, but first he would have to leave his wife. Yes he was also married, needless to say I will be divorced from her in 4 months, and be filing for an annulment myself.
The only advice I can give you is – DO NOT pursuit any relationship with this other woman! It may just seem like causal talk and what ifs, but it will go too far whether you realize it or not. Even talking about having feelings for each other is wrong, flat out no matter what is going on in your marriage.
First off you should talk with you your wife, and explain your true feelings. Do not betray her trust, yes she knows you want kids but tell her that it is affecting your marriage. If she still persists in not having kids, then do as others have suggested and talk with your priest. Pray for guidance, and do not give in to temptation with this other woman.
A priest at my church also explained it this way” to sin is bad, but to cause another to sin is much more grievous. So if you do care for this woman at all do not let her be the cause of your sin.
As I have said I have experienced what you are heading towards, and believe me I would never wish that on my worst enemy. No matter what the excuse maybe in your mind there is no excuse for the pain you will cause you’re wife if you let things get out of control with this other woman!

Winter

 

[Robertanthony]

Hi folks…I posted this on the AAA forum, but I’m sure they get a million questions like it, so I figured I’d go straight to the readers, hoping a canon lawyer might be amongst you.

Five years ago my wife and I got married. Both of us are Catholic and we were married in the Church. Before we got married, we were having sex and contracepting. The contraception continued for four years into our marriage. She had said that she did not want children. At the time, I had no real opinion on the matter…we were both in our early 20s and kids just seemed a long ways off to me. I figured she would just change her mind. It did bother me that she had said it, but I wrote it off because, like I said, it just didn’t seem like a big deal. We just wanted to have fun. We didn’t want to sit and “waste our time” at a marriage prep class…so we blew it off…the priest was a friend of mine, so he married us anyway. So strong was she that having children wasn’t something she wanted to do that we removed the promises to accept children from the ceremony…in the same way one would do for a couple getting married that was above the age of child bearing.

A few years into the marriage, I began to be convicted of the evils of contraception…not to mention I developed a very, very strong urge to be a father. I convinced her to come with me to a NFP class, but after the one class, we sat in the parking lot and she cried, continuously saying “I just don’t want to be mother…I don’t want kids”. So the contraception continued. Finally, about a year ago, she was convinced to go onto NFP. She’s said that we’d probably have kids, but that it would be years off…and the number of years seems to get larger as her career plans get larger…I’m approaching my 30s, and the chances of fatherhood seem to be fading away.

Recently she and I have grown distant…I’ve tried to cope with my desire to be a father by throwing myself into my work…probably not the smartest choice…but I had started to reach a fairly deep depression and had no where else to turn…if I was going to hurt, I wanted to at least be productive and keep my mind occupied.

Then, at work, I met a beautiful Catholic young woman…she is filled with joy, happiness, and has a very, very strong desire to be a mother. We are absolutely kindred spirits and is someone I could very easily see myself marrying. We’ve both expressed to one another that we have feeling for each other…but we’ve also expressed the strong belief that we should no pursue things unless I was able to get an annulment.

With my moderate knowledge of canon law, I feel that my situation has a very strong case for a declaration of nullity. However, I’d welcome some expert opinions…and yes, I know this is only one side…but the facts are the facts.

The intention, when marrying, never to have children (canon 1101§2) is listed as grounds for marriage nullity. Make sure you get the annulment before you pursue anything with that Catholic co-worker. It has to be declared null by an Ecclesial Tribunal to be indeed null.

 

[chevalier]

Firstly, separate the other woman from the issue of validity or nullity of your marriage to your wife.

Secondly, yes, it does look like you have a strong case. Not guaranteed nullity but a very strong case (in my opinion, although I’m not a proper canon lawyer), either under simulation or incapacity because this is a rare combination of a bit of both (normally this is an either/or situation but here behaviour after wedding suggests incapacity while the omission of the promise to accept offspring from the ceremony suggests simulation). Please understand, however, that even though I say you have a strong case, I don’t necessarily suggest that you pursue it. Before nullity proceedings go forward, tribunals should try to reconcile the couple, convalidate the marriage, restore cohabitation and so on. Don’t write off reconciling with your wife. There is a reason you married your wife, and maybe the two of you can actually reconcile yet. Don’t make this contingent on whether or not you can get to marry that other woman (don’t make either of the two women a backup plan).

 

[faithfully]

Firstly, separate the other woman from the issue of validity or nullity of your marriage to your wife.

Secondly, yes, it does look like you have a strong case. Not guaranteed nullity but a very strong case (in my opinion, although I’m not a proper canon lawyer), either under simulation or incapacity because this is a rare combination of a bit of both (normally this is an either/or situation but here behaviour after wedding suggests incapacity while the omission of the promise to accept offspring from the ceremony suggests simulation). Please understand, however, that even though I say you have a strong case, I don’t necessarily suggest that you pursue it. Before nullity proceedings go forward, tribunals should try to reconcile the couple, convalidate the marriage, restore cohabitation and so on. Don’t write off reconciling with your wife. There is a reason you married your wife, and maybe the two of you can actually reconcile yet. Don’t make this contingent on whether or not you can get to marry that other woman (don’t make either of the two women a backup plan).

The thing is OP, you made it clear you married young and without much care. Kind of the “easy” way towards marriage. No counseling, no considering what the church has to say about it. Completely avoiding and eliminating certain verbage.

This other woman is NOT a valid variable in your equation. You have made her one. She has NO Place in your marriage at all. No matter how bad it is. Either work on your marriage or get a divorce. And do it all of your own accord. Not what you think you have waiting in the wings. You’re not gauranteed children with this woman either. She’s pushing 30? She could have serious fertility issues. Heck, so could you. Ever wonder why your birth control hasn’t failed in over 5 years?