Annulment question/non-Catholics

[mrs_ahs]

Ok, a not-so-hypothetical situation and some questions for all you smart people.

R is a lifelong Protestant man who was married to S, a Protestant woman. They divorced after many years. He is now married to another woman, D, for the last 2 - 3 years. I am not sure of her religious affiliation but I can pretty safely say she is not a practicing Catholic. I believe it is her 4th or 5th marriage. R is looking to get another divorce. He wants to then marry J, a practicing Catholic in good standing who is eligible for marriage.

Am I correct in assuming that:

• R needs an annulment for his first marriage but NOT his second?
• R can begin the annulment process for his marriage to J even though he is not yet civilly divorced from D?

Also, if R becomes eligible to marry J in the Church, what is the process for him to be forgiven of his adulterous relationship with D? He is not Catholic so cannot receive the sacrament of reconciliation, correct?

 

[buc_fan33]

Wow. Ok. There is a lot here.

No, R needs an annulment for both marriages before being able to marry J. The Church always presumes the validity of a marriage. So, if his first marriage is found null, a second inquiry must be begun for his marriage to D, which is presumed valid until found to be otherwise.

No, he cannot receive Reconciliation. Yes, he can begin the annulment process, but to be honest, this sounds like a long process. It could take a few years. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news!

 

[mrs_ahs]

From post #1:

R can begin the annulment process for his marriage to J even though he is not yet civilly divorced from D?

This was supposed to read as “his marriage to** S**,” not J . . .

 

[1ke]

• R needs an annulment for his first marriage but NOT his second?

The process for determining freedom to marry will look at his entire marital history. It may be the case that a decree of nullity is needed for both, or maybe not. It depends upon the specifics of the situation such as the prior marriages of both spouses, baptismal status, etc.

• R can begin the annulment process for his marriage to J even though he is not yet civilly divorced from D?

Yes. But he will also need to have the marriage to D examined. And moreover, why is he in a relationship with a new person if he is not divorced from his current spouse?

Also, if R becomes eligible to marry J in the Church, what is the process for him to be forgiven of his adulterous relationship with D?

He does not have an adulterous relationship.

He is not Catholic so cannot receive the sacrament of reconciliation, correct?

Not under usual circumstances.

 

[mrs_ahs]

Yes. But he will also need to have the marriage to D examined. And moreover, why is he in a relationship with a new person if he is not divorced from his current spouse?

Good question! Believe me, ahs and I are very frustrated with this situation as well. J is my mother. She and R have dated on again and off again for about 18 or 19 years. He was divorced from S that whole time. (I was raised Protestant. My family all became Catholic 12-13 years ago.) My mom remained friendly to R even during times they were not “dating.” Then about 2 or 3 years ago he married D. Apparently it’s not working out and they are getting divorced. He and D are a different state than we are (my mom lives close to us). They have been having a phone relationship again for a few months. R says he has never stopped loving my mom and he wants to move here. I told her that it’s not a good idea until he gets his annulment situation squared away, but even though she is a faithful Catholic, she has all kinds of excuses for him…

He does not have an adulterous relationship.

Ok, I’m confused then. If R’s first marriage is presumed to be valid until proven otherwise, and R civilly divorced S and then civilly married D, that’s not an adulterous relationship in the eyes of the Church? I thought divorce and remarriage was adultery . . .

 

[1ke]

Ok, I’m confused then. If R’s first marriage is presumed to be valid until proven otherwise, and R civilly divorced S and then civilly married D, that’s not an adulterous relationship in the eyes of the Church? I thought divorce and remarriage was adultery . . .

Objectively, of course.

But we are talking about it in the context of **sin **to confess. That requires full knowledge and free will. It is often the case that Protestants are taught incorrectly regarding the indissoluablility of marriage.

 

[mrs_ahs]

Ok, gotcha! That makes sense.

 

[Gorgias]

Mrs ahs,

Just to make sure that the scope of the whole process is clear: both buc_fan and 1ke have mentioned the prodigious amount of investigation that would be necessary before a Catholic wedding between R & J might be able to take place. (Moreover, in the course of the investigation, any annulment proceedings for any of the marriages would have to be completed and all potential annulments granted – if it were found that either of R’s marriages were valid, then no Catholic wedding between R & J would be possible – R would not be free to marry while the bond between him and either S or D existed, regardless of his current (civic) marital situation.)

Notice, then, that there’s a lot of marriages to investigate: R’s first marriage to S, all of D’s prior marriages, and R & D’s marriage. At the end of the day, both of R’s marriages need to be found to be invalid before a Catholic wedding could be celebrated.

Hate to beat a dead horse, but that’s the reality of the situation…

by the way… you never said that D wasn’t a baptized Catholic, just that you were pretty sure that she wasn’t a practicing Catholic. Are you implying that there’s the chance that she was baptized Catholic? that might make a difference…
mrs ahs:

This was supposed to read as “his marriage to S,” not J . . .

So, the question is whether a Protestant man can initiate an annulment case for a marriage to a Protestant woman, even though he was never married to a Catholic woman? Well, it seems to me that, technically, this is possible. However, if he came to me with this request, I would hope that I would certainly ask him, “umm… and why do you want to do this? you don’t need it, per se.” if that brought out the “I’m not yet divorced but am thinking that my next marriage is going to be to a Catholic woman”, I think I would smile and suggest that he cross that bridge when (and if) he comes to it. (On the other hand, if D was a baptized Catholic, then there would be a legitimate reason, potentially, to look into the validity of R’s first marriage…)

 

[mrs_ahs]

by the way… you never said that D wasn’t a baptized Catholic, just that you were pretty sure that she wasn’t a practicing Catholic. Are you implying that there’s the chance that she was baptized Catholic? that might make a difference…

I guess it’s possible she could be a baptized Catholic. I’m really not sure.

So, the question is whether a Protestant man can initiate an annulment case for a marriage to a Protestant woman, even though he was never married to a Catholic woman? Well, it seems to me that, technically, this is possible. However, if he came to me with this request, I would hope that I would certainly ask him, “umm… and why do you want to do this? you don’t need it, per se.” if that brought out the “I’m not yet divorced but am thinking that my next marriage is going to be to a Catholic woman”, I think I would smile and suggest that he cross that bridge when (and if) he comes to it. (On the other hand, if D was a baptized Catholic, then there would be a legitimate reason, potentially, to look into the validity of R’s first marriage…)

I gave a more lengthy explanation of their situation in an above post. J is my mom. She and R have quite a history of being in love for almost 20 years. They’ve always had marriage to each other in the backs of their minds. I agree that he should be getting civilly divorced BEFORE he is talking about annulments, but that’s not what’s happening. My mom will ONLY get married in the Church, so I guess she is just thinking ahead a little. Or something. Maybe I also should have mentioned that R has looked into Catholicism a little, and I think there is a good chance that he will convert at some point.

 

[Gorgias]

I guess it’s possible she could be a baptized Catholic. I’m really not sure.

I gave a more lengthy explanation of their situation in an above post. J is my mom.

Right… I saw that. Now, if R were divorced and he and your mom were considering marriage, it would be a different situation. But, to approach a priest and start discussing annulments for the sake of a potential marriage that might only happen after one’s current marriage ends in divorce… well, I would hope that a priest wouldn’t entertain that consideration.

I agree that he should be getting civilly divorced BEFORE he is talking about annulments, but that’s not what’s happening.

I just can’t imagine the conversation with the priest that would lead to pursuing the annulment for the first marriage, while he’s still married to his second wife. Maybe buc_fan can help us out: if a married Protestant man came to you, having never been married in the Church and never married to a Catholic woman, and asked for an annulment for his first marriage, would you ask questions about his history, in order to find out why exactly he’s interested in an annulment from the Catholic Church? And, if you did ask, and found out that he’s in R’s situation, would you be inclined to initiate the annulment proceedings, given that he’s currently married?

Maybe I also should have mentioned that R has looked into Catholicism a little, and I think there is a good chance that he will convert at some point.

Well, that’s nice and all, but I don’t think that it has any bearing on the marriage / annulment question…