Annulment

[Subina]

Hi,

I am absolutely frustrated and about to just leave this whole thing behind. But I am here to see what I can do as a last ditch effort.

My annulment is done. Since 2012. I have been through RCIA three times now. I have a chronic illness and it was tough getting through this last year, I became more ill because I was pushing myself to hard after working a full day.

To get through classes I had asked a couple years ago if there was a way I could do them from home most times and come in once a month to join the class. I asked several times but nothing. No books or videos. I was left in the dark.

Now I have been waiting patiently for 4 years to finish all of this. But…

My husbands Petrine privlege annulment is what is holding me up. I was told back in October that it would be sent out to the Pope in November. November came and went with no letter saying they had done that. Then I called again in January. Told it would happen in March…Ok now I know I will not get baptized once again. Now its April and still nothing. We started his at the same time as mine in early 2011.

4 years? This is ridiculous. I had looked back to see if anyone else has experience this for as long but I didn’t find anyone.

Has anyone else experienced one to take so long?

 

[CatholicRaven]

I haven’t been through this myself, and don’t know how long they typically take. I assume it would vary, depending on the situation.

Remember the persistent widow in Luke 18?

I think I’d be (or my husband would be) calling them every week until they gave me a reasonable answer or status update. Something needs to be mailed to the Vatican? “Has this been mailed yet? – Has it been mailed yet?” Like a broken record, once a week until I got a, “Yes, it’s been mailed.” Then I’d say, “Great. How long should it take to hear back?” And then I’d be calling back when it was expected, every week until the next step. I would not wait for them to contact me. But I’m impatient that way.

And of course, keep praying, as well. I will also say a prayer for you!

 

[Subina]

I was emailing this woman a lot and she stopped answering my emails.

It usually takes 1-2 years for an annulment. This is too much. I don’t have the time or energy it takes to be on them constantly. And I shouldn’t have to be. This should have been sent out last year. And even that was 3 years in…

Ya I am frustrated to say the least. And pretty fed up. I honestly haven’t been to this church since The week before Easter. I went to my husbands church instead.

Since it has taken me years to get back to a church after abuse from my ex, I am so let down and pretty much have given up. I just keep hoping they will finally pull through but I am afraid by then it will be too late.

 

[Joe_5859]

That is definitely frustrating! I’m sorry to hear you are going through such difficulties.

Have you spoken with the priest about all of these things? What does he say? Is there anything he can do to help? After going through RCIA for so many years, I would politely request to be welcomed into the Church as soon as possible, Easter Vigil or no Easter Vigil.

I will pray for you!

 

[brigid12]

I haven’t been through this myself, and don’t know how long they typically take. I assume it would vary, depending on the situation.

Remember the persistent widow in Luke 18?

I think I’d be (or my husband would be) calling them every week until they gave me a reasonable answer or status update. Something needs to be mailed to the Vatican? “Has this been mailed yet? – Has it been mailed yet?” Like a broken record, once a week until I got a, “Yes, it’s been mailed.” Then I’d say, “Great. How long should it take to hear back?” And then I’d be calling back when it was expected, every week until the next step. I would not wait for them to contact me. But I’m impatient that way.

And of course, keep praying, as well. I will also say a prayer for you!

This is the way that I would do it too. “The squeaky wheel gets the oil”. It would tell them how important it is to you. Talk to your parish priest. He might be able to get it done faster too. He would be the “advocate” of the annulment" and they listen to them more than they do lay people. Someone needs to go to the P.O. and there are enough things to do in the office that leaving it to go to the P.O. doesn’t get done without a lot of pushing.

 

[Subina]

After 4 years of this I have tried. Yes I’ve talked to the Priest twice and he just refers me back to the advocate. All she does is call them again to see where they are. If and that’s a big IF it gets done soon they said they would baptize me any time this year. I honestly don’t see that happening since it hasn’t even been signed by the bishop and still has to be signed by the Pope.

Frustration ensued. I feel like I keep hitting brick walls. It shouldnt be THIS difficult to get baptized. Something is broken somewhere.

 

[pianistclare]

I will say this:
The people in my parish whose cases get taken care of quickly are the ones who call the Tribunal every other week, like clockwork. Asking the RCIA Director or instructors is like asking no one. They have no more information than you do.
Who is your Advocate? THAT is the person who can also call regularly and ask “where are we on this?” One of our RCIA fellows is waiting on a Pauline privilege. He was disappointed because the Director told him it would be 6 weeks.
That’s not exactly true. It’s six weeks from when they receive it in ROME. And THEN, it’s dependent on how many cases they have to review and where it is on their pile of cases.
Promising people things that you can’t possibly know about is a problem. **This **is what Pope Francis hopes to address in his upcoming Synod. The efficiency of the Tribunals.
My sister married a gay man. Granted it was in the 50’s, but hey, you would think that was an open and shut case. Nope. It took 20 years. I kid you not. She had to prove the man was lying about being gay. He had a live in lover and all his friends were gay, but for some reason, they just thought she just abandoned him.

I don’t hear horror stories like that anymore, but the person to go to is the Pastor. Ask questions there, and call the Tribunal regularly.
Be assured of our prayers. It’s worth the wait. Really it is.
But I’m so sorry you are going through this. The Lord knows your heart. Go to church for love of Him…that will serve Him and yourself during this difficult time of waiting.

 

[Convert1]

I will say this:
The people in my parish whose cases get taken care of quickly are the ones who call the Tribunal every other week, like clockwork. Asking the RCIA Director or instructors is like asking no one. They have no more information than you do.
Who is your Advocate? THAT is the person who can also call regularly and ask “where are we on this?” One of our RCIA fellows is waiting on a Pauline privilege. He was disappointed because the Director told him it would be 6 weeks.
That’s not exactly true. It’s six weeks from when they receive it in ROME. And THEN, it’s dependent on how many cases they have to review and where it is on their pile of cases.
Promising people things that you can’t possibly know about is a problem. **This **is what Pope Francis hopes to address in his upcoming Synod. The efficiency of the Tribunals.
My sister married a gay man. Granted it was in the 50’s, but hey, you would think that was an open and shut case. Nope. It took 20 years. I kid you not. She had to prove the man was lying about being gay. He had a live in lover and all his friends were gay, but for some reason, they just thought she just abandoned him.

I don’t hear horror stories like that anymore, but the person to go to is the Pastor. Ask questions there, and call the Tribunal regularly.
Be assured of our prayers. It’s worth the wait. Really it is.
But I’m so sorry you are going through this. The Lord knows your heart. Go to church for love of Him…that will serve Him and yourself during this difficult time of waiting.

I am in the middle of an annulment and have been involved in the process for almost a year.
I will say, and no offense meant here, my experience yields that most Catholics that have never gone through it, have limited knowledge in the details of the process. I think mainly because the process is so complicated and confusing. Also, every Tribunal varies from state to state and country to country. Some Tribunals (such as mine) will not even speak to your parish priest. The Tribunal in which you (your husband) applied should have an “Advocate” to represent you. I have yet to speak to mine and I have asked twice. The best piece of advice I have received was to speak to a canon lawyer. He helped me tremendously and instructed me on questions to ask and contacts to make. My priest knew one from seminary, but they are also on the internet. Do continue meeting with your priest and discussing your feelings. My priest was a huge source of support, even though he could do very little at the Tribunal level.
Trust me, I know somewhat how you feel. Frustrated, angry, disappointed. I can’t even imagine four years in the process! God Bless You for hanging in there this long!

All I know is, I pray constantly. I attend Mass regularly. These are my only comforts in this situation. Please do not give up. I believe in the Holy Eucharist; and I know that in the end it will be worth it. I agree with PianistClare; I think this will be a topic at the Synod.

BTW. There is an Annulment Support Group in this forum. Just put the phrase in the search box and it will come up.

 

[MJJean]

Is there no other option but Petrine? Cases that go to the Rota can take quite a long time vs cases handled locally through the Tribunals.

Have you spoken to a Canon Lawyer? Frankly, priests and Advocates are human and some aren’t as well versed as they should be in the annulment process or the best options for those seeking annulment. I think you might want to consider speaking to a Canon Lawyer and investigating other possibilities.

My annulment application was submitted to the Tribunal July 2013. I just received my First Instance decision a bit over a month ago and am waiting on the Second Instance decision. I cannot have my marriage convalidated or be Confirmed until it’s complete. Believe me, I understand your frustration. I’ll pray for you.

 

[phil19034]

After 4 years of this I have tried. Yes I’ve talked to the Priest twice and he just refers me back to the advocate. All she does is call them again to see where they are. If and that’s a big IF it gets done soon they said they would baptize me any time this year. I honestly don’t see that happening since it hasn’t even been signed by the bishop and still has to be signed by the Pope.

Frustration ensued. I feel like I keep hitting brick walls. It shouldnt be THIS difficult to get baptized. Something is broken somewhere.

I’m so sorry you are going through this. This is one of the things that Pope Francis wants to fix (and rightfully so). The problem is that the Church has so many requests and many dioceses / tribunals are using technology from the 1800s.

In some (not all) American dioceses, the process is much faster because those dioceses have implemented technology to streamline the process. But most diocese don’t have this and almost none outside the USA. So again, the Pope is looking at the American dioceses that have a better system to see how those processes can be improved and replicated across the Church.

I know it doesn’t help you now, but please pray for this. And continue to speak to your pastor about your concern with this. Talk to him after every Mass you attend with him and more if necessary. And call the Tribunal weekly. Some crying on the phone might help too

However, rest assured that we will pray for you. And please remember that when it is finally finished, it will be worth it.

May The Lord bring about a quicker resolution to this process and may others not be forced to experience the same issues as this poor woman. Amen.

 

[CatholicRaven]

That does sound really frustrating. I’m sorry.

Sending up another prayer for you.

 

[ZiggysGal]

I just wanted to.add a voice of support. We waited almost three years from the first meeting with the priest for our annulment process. Not easy at all. Totally worth it, though.

Hold tight. When your frustration level gets high, pray and go to adoration.

Listen and God will give you little whispers of reassurance and encouragement for the wait.

You are in my prayers.

 

[DakiniArtist]

Long story short, I just joined the Church this past Saturday after four years and an 11th hour phone call that after the annulment, the sanation paperwork was in.

It’s my understanding the Petrine Privilege paperwork takes several months. It will happen. Patience! Hang in there. You’ll look back and think, Wow, I was not ready before this happened!

You have all of our prayers!

:grouphug:

 

[Gorgias]

Subina,

I’m really sorry for all the hardship you’ve gone through, in your attempts to regularize your marital situation before entering the Church. I’ll keep you in my prayers!

Now I have been waiting patiently for 4 years to finish all of this. But…

My husbands Petrine privlege annulment is what is holding me up. … We started his at the same time as mine in early 2011.

Do you mean to say that, for the past four years, your diocesan tribunal has been working on a dissolution of your husband’s first marriage ‘in favor of the faith’? Or, is it possible that they were first looking at the possibility of a decree of nullity (which took a certain amount of time to investigate and discern), but were unable to secure that verdict, and so (at some later time within the past four years) the process turned toward an attempt to obtain a dissolution instead?

I was told back in October that it would be sent out to the Pope in November. November came and went with no letter saying they had done that. Then I called again in January. Told it would happen in March. Now its April and still nothing.

You’re hearing these dates from your advocate? I agree with the others who say that perhaps seeking out a canon lawyer might be helpful; at the very least, I’d hope that they’d be able to provide you with more information, if not some insight into why there’s a disconnect between your expectations on the time frame for this process and what you’re experiencing.

By the way – you mentioned that your priest simply asks you to talk with your advocate. That makes sense that your priest does so, since it’s your advocate (not your priest) who is involved in this process with you.

I honestly don’t see that happening since it hasn’t even been signed by the bishop and still has to be signed by the Pope.

RIght; there’s quite an involved investigation process that’s part of this kind of dissolution, following which the bishop must recommend sending the documentation to the Congregation of the Doctrine of the Faith (in Rome).

Frustration ensued. I feel like I keep hitting brick walls. It shouldnt be THIS difficult to get baptized. Something is broken somewhere.

Given what you’ve said in this thread, it would seem your husband is Christian. His first wife, then, is the unbaptized party? Has she been baptized subsequently? Or, was your husband the unbaptized party, and he was baptized after the marriage ended?

4 years? This is ridiculous. I had looked back to see if anyone else has experience this for as long but I didn’t find anyone. Has anyone else experienced one to take so long?

Just as a general recommendation: as you ask around, getting (name removed by moderator)ut about the length of time of peoples’ experiences with the Tribunal, make sure you’re comparing apples to apples. If someone had received a decree of nullity due to defect of form, for instance, the length of time would be vastly different. Be sure you’re seeking out opinion from those who have attempted a dissolution in favor of the faith, and done so from the same diocese from which you’re seeking it.

I’ll be praying for you!

Blessings,
G.

 

[Phemie]

Just as a general recommendation: as you ask around, getting (name removed by moderator)ut about the length of time of peoples’ experiences with the Tribunal, make sure you’re comparing apples to apples. If someone had received a decree of nullity due to defect of form, for instance, the length of time would be vastly different. Be sure you’re seeking out opinion from those who have attempted a dissolution in favor of the faith, and done so from the same diocese from which you’re seeking it.

I’ll be praying for you!

Blessings,
G.

The timing may also vary greatly depending on the size of the diocese and the catchment area for the court of second instance. A small diocese may reach a first decision quite quickly while the second instance may take considerably more time since there are many more cases to look at.

In Canada, for example, there is only one “second instance” marriage tribunal. All marriages found to be ‘null’ in the first instance are automatically sent to Ottawa to the second instance tribunal. Imagine how many more cases they have to deal with!

 

[DakiniArtist]

The timing may also vary greatly depending on the size of the diocese and the catchment area for the court of second instance. A small diocese may reach a first decision quite quickly while the second instance may take considerably more time since there are many more cases to look at.

In Canada, for example, there is only one “second instance” marriage tribunal. All marriages found to be ‘null’ in the first instance are automatically sent to Ottawa to the second instance tribunal. Imagine how many more cases they have to deal with!

That’s how ours is. Our annulments are sent to another diocese in the state to get a second approval.

 

[Subina]

Subina,

I’m really sorry for all the hardship you’ve gone through, in your attempts to regularize your marital situation before entering the Church. I’ll keep you in my prayers!

Do you mean to say that, for the past four years, your diocesan tribunal has been working on a dissolution of your husband’s first marriage ‘in favor of the faith’? Or, is it possible that they were first looking at the possibility of a decree of nullity (which took a certain amount of time to investigate and discern), but were unable to secure that verdict, and so (at some later time within the past four years) the process turned toward an attempt to obtain a dissolution instead?

You’re hearing these dates from your advocate? I agree with the others who say that perhaps seeking out a canon lawyer might be helpful; at the very least, I’d hope that they’d be able to provide you with more information, if not some insight into why there’s a disconnect between your expectations on the time frame for this process and what you’re experiencing.

By the way – you mentioned that your priest simply asks you to talk with your advocate. That makes sense that your priest does so, since it’s your advocate (not your priest) who is involved in this process with you.

RIght; there’s quite an involved investigation process that’s part of this kind of dissolution, following which the bishop must recommend sending the documentation to the Congregation of the Doctrine of the Faith (in Rome).

Given what you’ve said in this thread, it would seem your husband is Christian. His first wife, then, is the unbaptized party? Has she been baptized subsequently? Or, was your husband the unbaptized party, and he was baptized after the marriage ended?

Just as a general recommendation: as you ask around, getting (name removed by moderator)ut about the length of time of peoples’ experiences with the Tribunal, make sure you’re comparing apples to apples. If someone had received a decree of nullity due to defect of form, for instance, the length of time would be vastly different. Be sure you’re seeking out opinion from those who have attempted a dissolution in favor of the faith, and done so from the same diocese from which you’re seeking it.

I’ll be praying for you!

Blessings,
G.

My husband has not been baptized and neither has his Ex. Ever. All I know is we started both our processes were started at the same time in 2011. His was Prtrine to start with and still is. Mine was not. Mine was annulled in late 2012.
Thanks for the support and asking for clarification. My Priest called yesterday and is callng the Diocese himself to find out what is going on.

 

[Gorgias]

My husband has not been baptized

Oh… sorry for the misunderstanding. You’d written that you went to your husband’s church for Easter. I presumed that this meant he was Christian (although, admittedly, that doesn’t imply he’s baptized).

His was Petrine to start with and still is.

Wow. Given that it must go through Rome, it’s surprising that they’d start there.

Thanks for the support and asking for clarification. My Priest called yesterday and is callng the Diocese himself to find out what is going on.

That’s good news! Prayers going up for you!