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…'The Immaculate Conception

490 To become the mother of the Savior, Mary "was enriched by God with gifts appropriate to such a role."132 The angel Gabriel at the moment of the annunciation salutes her as “full of grace”.133 In fact, in order for Mary to be able to give the free assent of her faith to the announcement of her vocation, it was necessary that she be wholly borne by God’s grace.

491 Through the centuries the Church has become ever more aware that Mary, “full of grace” through God,134 was redeemed from the moment of her conception. That is what the dogma of the Immaculate Conception confesses, as Pope Pius IX proclaimed in 1854:

The most Blessed Virgin Mary was, from the first moment of her conception, by a singular grace and privilege of almighty God and by virtue of the merits of Jesus Christ, Savior of the human race, preserved immune from all stain of original sin.135

492 The “splendor of an entirely unique holiness” by which Mary is “enriched from the first instant of her conception” comes wholly from Christ: she is “redeemed, in a more exalted fashion, by reason of the merits of her Son”.136 The Father blessed Mary more than any other created person “in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places” and chose her “in Christ before the foundation of the world, to be holy and blameless before him in love”.137

493 The Fathers of the Eastern tradition call the Mother of God “the All-Holy” (Panagia), and celebrate her as “free from any stain of sin, as though fashioned by the Holy Spirit and formed as a new creature”.138 By the grace of God Mary remained free of every personal sin her whole life long.’

vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p122a3p2.htm
 
LOL friard…
this is the most you’ve posted in eons…😉
😃 It has been a while! Barely getting the chance to gasp for air. With lots of this :slapfight: and this :takethat: and then this :coolinoff:

I hope the track from the link gave you a hearty lift?
 
😃 It has been a while! Barely getting the chance to gasp for air. With lots of this :slapfight: and this :takethat: and then this :coolinoff:

I hope the track from the link gave you a hearty lift?
Great song!
I have a great song for you too, but it uses that word we can’t say in Lent…so it will have to wait. HA!
 
…'The Immaculate Conception

490 To become the mother of the Savior, Mary "was enriched by God with gifts appropriate to such a role."132 The angel Gabriel at the moment of the annunciation salutes her as “full of grace”.133 In fact, in order for Mary to be able to give the free assent of her faith to the announcement of her vocation, it was necessary that she be wholly borne by God’s grace.

491 Through the centuries the Church has become ever more aware that Mary, “full of grace” through God,134 was redeemed from the moment of her conception. That is what the dogma of the Immaculate Conception confesses, as Pope Pius IX proclaimed in 1854:

The most Blessed Virgin Mary was, from the first moment of her conception, by a singular grace and privilege of almighty God and by virtue of the merits of Jesus Christ, Savior of the human race, preserved immune from all stain of original sin.135

492 The “splendor of an entirely unique holiness” by which Mary is “enriched from the first instant of her conception” comes wholly from Christ: she is “redeemed, in a more exalted fashion, by reason of the merits of her Son”.136 The Father blessed Mary more than any other created person “in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places” and chose her “in Christ before the foundation of the world, to be holy and blameless before him in love”.137

493 The Fathers of the Eastern tradition call the Mother of God “the All-Holy” (Panagia), and celebrate her as “free from any stain of sin, as though fashioned by the Holy Spirit and formed as a new creature”.138 By the grace of God Mary remained free of every personal sin her whole life long.’

vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p122a3p2.htm
All well and good. But there is no direct reference to an Immaculate Conception.

The Roman Catholic Tradition is that since Mary was so pure, that her conception, logically, must have been “immaculate”. Yet, there is no direct scriptural evidence for that belief.

You made my point for me. Thank you.
 
All well and good. But there is no direct reference to an Immaculate Conception.

The Roman Catholic Tradition is that since Mary was so pure, that her conception, logically, must have been “immaculate”. Yet, there is no direct scriptural evidence for that belief.

You made my point for me. Thank you.
Scriptural evidence does not eliminate higher reasoning and faith, it absolutely requires it.

And this what your analysis lacks, because to be “full of grace”, one would have to be in Heaven, for one can only be absolutely full of grace in Heaven, due to the stain of original sin in the soul and the inclination to sin which remains even after Baptism. The angel did not say: “…filled with grace”, which could indeed suggest “filled with some grace”, no, the angel said…“FULL of grace”, which is only possible without original sin, and without the inclination to sin - by being immaculately conceived.

There is no other way to decipher: “…full of grace”. None.

This doesn’t leave any room for any other interpretation.

You’re welcome! 👍
 
Scriptural evidence does not eliminate higher reasoning and faith, it absolutely requires it.

And this what your analysis lacks, because to be “full of grace”, one would have to be in Heaven, for one can only be absolutely full of grace in Heaven, due to the stain of original sin in the soul and the inclination to sin which remains even after Baptism. The angel did not say: “…filled with grace”, which could indeed suggest “filled with some grace”, no, the angel said…“FULL of grace”, which is only possible without original sin, and without the inclination to sin - by being immaculately conceived.

There is no other way to decipher: “…full of grace”. None.

This doesn’t leave any room for any other interpretation.

You’re welcome! 👍
Actually it does allow room for other interpretations. If it did not, then all of the various Christian denominations would share the Catholic view on this particular point. They do not.

To restate the obvious, if there were no room for any other interpretation, then Catholicism would be the only Christian sect, when in fact there are many others as well.

Personally, I find your interpretation out of alignment with the text. There is no reason to make the connection that you do that “full of grace” must inhere only from an immaculate conception.

So, not only are you incorrect in your statement on a broader scale, your statement is incorrect on a personal scale.
 
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