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STT
Guest
We know that consciousness is needed for collapse of wave function and creation of particles yet consciousness is the result of particles activities. This is circular.
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Beryllos
Guest
This is just wrong. Quantum mechanics does not work that way. There is a confusion between “detection” and “observation.” Detection of an object changes its wavefunction, this is true, but detection (as by an instrument) is a physical process, not a matter of consciousness. If you have been reading Dr. Robert Lanza’s pseudo-science called Biocentrism, please stop. It is a lot of foolishness.We know that consciousness is needed for collapse of wave function and creation of particles
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STT
Guest
What I am claiming is based on Von Neumann and Wingner interpretation.This is just wrong. Quantum mechanics does not work that way. There is a confusion between “detection” and “observation.” Detection of an object changes its wavefunction, this is true, but detection (as by an instrument) is a physical process, not a matter of consciousness. If you have been reading Dr. Robert Lanza’s pseudo-science called Biocentrism, please stop. It is a lot of foolishness.
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JapaneseKappa
Guest
So is this a criticism of materialism, or the Von Neumann-Wigner interpretation?What I am claiming is based on Von Neumann and Wingner interpretation.
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STT
Guest
It first seems to me as a criticism of materialsm but now I can see that it could also be a criticism to the Von Neumann-Wigner interpretation.So is this a criticism of materialism, or the Von Neumann-Wigner interpretation?
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Vic_Taltrees_UK
Guest
Paradoxically, an apparent cause can also appear as the result of a cause, but that is not the same as being circular i m o.
I don’t know my Von Neumann-Wigner but it could be that both “materialism” and “anti-materialism” are overreactions based on under-comprehension.
The comprehensive will never be comprehended. But we certainly ought to swim in it.
I don’t know my Von Neumann-Wigner but it could be that both “materialism” and “anti-materialism” are overreactions based on under-comprehension.
The comprehensive will never be comprehended. But we certainly ought to swim in it.
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Vic_Taltrees_UK
Guest
Just checked out Von Neumann-Wingner. It looks to me like issues of measurement don’t negate the material.
It could be a spectrum issue. In getting near what we are measuring, the curve we are on suddenly becomes very steep?
As pointed out by Beryllos, this wouldn’t be based on consciousness which is a different quality from measurement.
It could be a spectrum issue. In getting near what we are measuring, the curve we are on suddenly becomes very steep?
As pointed out by Beryllos, this wouldn’t be based on consciousness which is a different quality from measurement.
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EnosJadon
Guest
Just wondering out loud here. But isn’t this true whether consciousness is the cause of the collapse or not? The observer, whether it’s a conscious entity, or a simple measuring device…whatever that may be…is ultimately part of the very wave function that it’s collapsing.We know that consciousness is needed for collapse of wave function and creation of particles yet consciousness is the result of particles activities. This is circular.
It would seem therefore that it doesn’t matter whether the observer is conscious or not, you will inevitably have a feedback loop, in which the observer effects the wave function, which effects the observer.
Could it be that that feedback loop is what we refer to as time. A continuously emerging and collapsing wave function.
Like I say, I’m just wondering out loud here.
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