Another "Catholic" view of abortion?

[Ambrose]

A letter has been circulated in our parish from a group that admits it is in solidarity with Call to Action, which is a National dissident Catholic group as many of you know.

The letter’s main thrust is to encourage Catholics not to be confined by Church teaching on matters of Faith and Morals and basiclly vote your conscience. On abortion it talks about what they call the “delayed animation view” which holds according to this group that this teaching *has been held by the Church until the 19th century , and teaches that the prenatal material must become more complex to recieve the intellectual human soul.The zygote is too primitive to recieve the intellectual soul. *It goes on to say Aquinas held the view and that it still has strong support today. Obviously they use it to justify abortion, at least in the first trimester.

My instincts tell me this is a bunch of bull. Could I get some feedback as to why this is bogus ?

 

[milimac]

Whatever Aquinas did or did not think or believe, this has higher authority…

Evangelium Vitae:
Therefore, by the authority which Christ conferred upon Peter and his Successors, and in communion with the Bishops of the Catholic Church, I confirm that the direct and voluntary killing of an innocent human being is always gravely immoral. This doctrine, based upon that unwritten law which man, in the light of reason, finds in his own heart (cf. Rom 2:14-15), is reaffirmed by Sacred Scripture, transmitted by the Tradition of the Church and taught by the ordinary and universal Magisterium. 51

The deliberate decision to deprive an innocent human being of his life is always morally evil and can never be licit either as an end in itself or as a means to a good end. It is in fact a grave act of disobedience to the moral law, and indeed to God himself, the author and guarantor of that law; it contradicts the fundamental virtues of justice and charity. "Nothing and no one can in any way permit the killing of an innocent human being, whether a fetus or an embryo, an infant or an adult, an old person, or one suffering from an incurable disease, or a person who is dying. Furthermore, no one is permitted to ask for this act of killing, either for himself or herself or for another person entrusted to his or her care, nor can he or she consent to it, either explicitly or implicitly. Nor can any authority legitimately recommend or permit such an action".52

Here is a paper I found which explores this topic in more detail:
vanderbilt.edu/SFL/ThomistFertilization.htm

 

[JimG]

Aquinas knew nothing of the zygote. Some medieval theologians thought that “quickening” showed the beginning of life, because that was when the mother felt movement. Obviously, they were mistaken, not because of bad theology, but because of limited knowledge of embryology. We all know the embryo is alive long before the mother can feel movement.

Every human being has a beginning, and that beginning is at conception. That is when a new individual of the human species comes into existence. That’s the biology of it. The embryo is alive from conception, a new human individual. If it is alive, and it is human, it has a soul, because philosophically, a soul is the animating principle of the body. And Aquinas would agree with that.

 

[puzzleannie]

If the material is published by Call to Action it has left the realm of dissent and become out and out heresy, and called for what it is by many courageous bishops. Get CUF, Your Catholic Voice, or some other orthodox group going in your parish and diocese to combat them if they have come to call.

 

[Antonio_B]

Ambrose:

A letter has been circulated in our parish from a group that admits it is in solidarity with Call to Action, which is a National dissident Catholic group as many of you know.

The letter’s main thrust is to encourage Catholics not to be confined by Church teaching on matters of Faith and Morals and basiclly vote your conscience. On abortion it talks about what they call the “delayed animation view” which holds according to this group that this teaching *has been held by the Church until the 19th century , and teaches that the prenatal material must become more complex to recieve the intellectual human soul.The zygote is too primitive to recieve the intellectual soul. *It goes on to say Aquinas held the view and that it still has strong support today. Obviously they use it to justify abortion, at least in the first trimester.

My instincts tell me this is a bunch of bull. Could I get some feedback as to why this is bogus ?

Your instincts are absolutely correct and how those folks can call themselves “Catholic” with this position is beyond my comprehension!

Antonio

 

[jimmy]

Ambrose:

A letter has been circulated in our parish from a group that admits it is in solidarity with Call to Action, which is a National dissident Catholic group as many of you know.

The letter’s main thrust is to encourage Catholics not to be confined by Church teaching on matters of Faith and Morals and basiclly vote your conscience. On abortion it talks about what they call the “delayed animation view” which holds according to this group that this teaching *has been held by the Church until the 19th century , and teaches that the prenatal material must become more complex to recieve the intellectual human soul.The zygote is too primitive to recieve the intellectual soul. *It goes on to say Aquinas held the view and that it still has strong support today. Obviously they use it to justify abortion, at least in the first trimester.

My instincts tell me this is a bunch of bull. Could I get some feedback as to why this is bogus ?

It does not matter what Aquinas taught, his teachings aren’t necisarily church teaching. The church has always been against abortion at any time in the pregnancy. It is not a new development. There is no way to prove that a soul is not instilled at conception. The fact that you can’t say a definite time when the soul is instilled, if not when conception occurs, should be a reason to be against abortion. You should always stay on the side of safety and protecting life. You do not want to be wrong and kill a soul.

 

[Jermosh]

Augustine said we were animals till our heads popped out(or something like that). Its a technology culture thing. We are in reality basing our beliefs on that life starts at conception, there is yet any scientific proof as to when the soul is impregnated into out bodies. But there is no scientific proof of a soul as well.

 

[mlchance]

Jermosh:

We are in reality basing our beliefs on that life starts at conception, there is yet any scientific proof as to when the soul is impregnated into out bodies.

The existence of the soul and when it “enters” the body is irrelevant.

It is a scientific fact that an embryo is both human and alive. Appeals 19th century science that has been long discredited are pointless.

– Mark L. Chance.

 

[Jermosh]

mlchance:

The existence of the soul and when it “enters” the body is irrelevant.

It is a scientific fact that an embryo is both human and alive. Appeals 19th century science that has been long discredited are pointless.

– Mark L. Chance.

Yes this is very true, we talking about Life here.

Although on this note, when is the soul impregnated(?) with the Body? If its conception, do Identical twins share the same soul?

 

[elvisman]

Ambrose:

A letter has been circulated in our parish from a group that admits it is in solidarity with Call to Action, which is a National dissident Catholic group as many of you know.

The letter’s main thrust is to encourage Catholics not to be confined by Church teaching on matters of Faith and Morals and basiclly vote your conscience. On abortion it talks about what they call the “delayed animation view” which holds according to this group that this teaching *has been held by the Church until the 19th century , and teaches that the prenatal material must become more complex to recieve the intellectual human soul.The zygote is too primitive to recieve the intellectual soul. *It goes on to say Aquinas held the view and that it still has strong support today. Obviously they use it to justify abortion, at least in the first trimester.

My instincts tell me this is a bunch of bull. Could I get some feedback as to why this is bogus ?

Ambrose,
Here is but one Scripture verse that will refute ***ANYBODY’S *** argument who is in favor of abortion - **ESPECIALLY ** those who claim to be Christian:

Jeremiah 3:5
"Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, before you were born I dedicated you . . . ."

End of argument. :bible1:

"Ignorance of Scripture is ignorance of Christ" - St. Jerome

 

[stbruno]

Don’t we have a scripture reading somewhere where the Lord says:
I knew you even before you were born, I held you in the palm of my hand?

 

[ClaireBloodgood]

How is this letter being circulated in your parish? Left on pews, person to person, emails? Has your pastor addressed it from the pulpit? You might want to send a copy to your bishop.

My experience is that the average Catholic doesn’t get taken in by things like this unless he or she already wants to believe it.

Peace,
Claire

 

[Apologia100]

Ambrose:

A letter has been circulated in our parish from a group that admits it is in solidarity with Call to Action, which is a National dissident Catholic group as many of you know.

The letter’s main thrust is to encourage Catholics not to be confined by Church teaching on matters of Faith and Morals and basiclly vote your conscience. On abortion it talks about what they call the “delayed animation view” which holds according to this group that this teaching *has been held by the Church until the 19th century , and teaches that the prenatal material must become more complex to recieve the intellectual human soul.The zygote is too primitive to recieve the intellectual soul. *It goes on to say Aquinas held the view and that it still has strong support today. Obviously they use it to justify abortion, at least in the first trimester.

My instincts tell me this is a bunch of bull. Could I get some feedback as to why this is bogus ?

Essentially, if any private theologian is at odds with officially promulgated statement of faith, then the preference MUST go on the statement of faith. In this case, St. Thomas is a private theologian and thus his work, though incredibly insightful, is not dogmatic, nor is it binding on the Catholic conscience. However, the Evangelium Vitae is. The Church has dogmatically defined a person as extant from conception until death, and thus interference with the vitality of that person is tantamount to murder. St. Thomas was not the only theologian with this view, St. Augustine also believed in it. However, there are writings in the Didache, written by the Apostles, that prohibit abortion. “The second commandment of the teaching: You shall not murder. You shall not commit adultery. You shall not seduce boys. You shall not commit fornication. You shall not steal. You shall not practice magic. You shall not use potions. You shall not procure [an] abortion, nor destroy a newborn child” (Didache 2:1–2 [A.D. 70]).

Here is the quote from the Evangelium Vitae:

Thus, in 1995 Pope John Paul II declared that the Church’s teaching on abortion “is unchanged and unchangeable. Therefore, by the authority which Christ conferred upon Peter and his successors . . . I declare that direct abortion, that is, abortion willed as an end or as a means, always constitutes a grave moral disorder, since it is the deliberate killing of an innocent human being. This doctrine is based upon the natural law and upon the written word of God, is transmitted by the Church’s tradition and taught by the ordinary and universal magisterium. No circumstance, no purpose, no law whatsoever can ever make licit an act which is intrinsically illicit, since it is contrary to the law of God which is written in every human heart, knowable by reason itself, and proclaimed by the Church”

That what is called an *ex cathedra * statement.