Another Scandal Question

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Rather than hijacking someone else’s thread, I decided to make another one about this tiresome subject.

So me and a friend (of the opposite sex) want to go on a camping trip next month at a national park. We will probably be sleeping in a tent, but might spend a night in a hotel. Scandal here?

There’s absolutely no occasion of sin here. We’ve never dated, and we’ve been friends for so long now that I know nothing will happen.

So exactly how seriously am I supposed to take this scandal thing? Do I really have to concern myself with people’s mistaken beliefs? For all they know, this person could be my cousin. 🤷
 
An unmarried couple …even in your situation…should NOT be sleeping in the same tent…or the same room at a hotel…etc

short of perhaps some grave natural disaster necessity…

And yes there is concern in regards to scandal as well --to answer your question.

Boy and girl cousins should not be either …

And even “going away alone together overnight”…would seem to be problematic. Such vacations are for husband and wife…though I could see say you going to both go visit family somewhere…and you stay in different rooms in the house with the family…that sort of thing…
 
Rather than hijacking someone else’s thread, I decided to make another one about this tiresome subject.

So me and a friend (of the opposite sex) want to go on a camping trip next month at a national park. We will probably be sleeping in a tent, but might spend a night in a hotel. Scandal here?

There’s absolutely no occasion of sin here. We’ve never dated, and we’ve been friends for so long now that I know nothing will happen.

So exactly how seriously am I supposed to take this scandal thing? Do I really have to concern myself with people’s mistaken beliefs? For all they know, this person could be my cousin. 🤷
People frequently misunderstand scandal. You would not give scandal to people in the park or at the hotel.

Scandal is something specific, and something quite serious, a violation of the Fifth Commandment.

Respect for the souls of others: scandal

2284 Scandal is an attitude or behavior which leads another to do evil. the person who gives scandal becomes his neighbor’s tempter. He damages virtue and integrity; he may even draw his brother into spiritual death. Scandal is a grave offense if by deed or omission another is deliberately led into a grave offense.

2285 Scandal takes on a particular gravity by reason of the authority of those who cause it or the weakness of those who are scandalized. It prompted our Lord to utter this curse: “Whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in me to sin, it would be better for him to have a great millstone fastened round his neck and to be drowned in the depth of the sea.” Scandal is grave when given by those who by nature or office are obliged to teach and educate others. Jesus reproaches the scribes and Pharisees on this account: he likens them to wolves in sheep’s clothing.

2286 Scandal can be provoked by laws or institutions, by fashion or opinion.

Therefore, they are guilty of scandal who establish laws or social structures leading to the decline of morals and the corruption of religious practice, or to “social conditions that, intentionally or not, make Christian conduct and obedience to the Commandments difficult and practically impossible.” This is also true of business leaders who make rules encouraging fraud, teachers who provoke their children to anger, or manipulators of public opinion who turn it away from moral values.

2287 Anyone who uses the power at his disposal in such a way that it leads others to do wrong becomes guilty of scandal and responsible for the evil that he has directly or indirectly encouraged. “Temptations to sin are sure to come; but woe to him by whom they come!”

I believe this is a matter of prudence, modesty, and *decorum *not scandal. It really isn’t prudent or modest to sleep in the same quarters with a non-relative of the opposite sex.
 
I believe this is a matter of prudence, modesty, and *decorum *not scandal. It really isn’t prudent or modest to sleep in the same quarters with a non-relative of the opposite sex.
Such can also be a cause of scandal in various ways.

For example those who know they are doing this…or see them doing this…may think

“these guys are Christians …very solid Catholics…so it must be ok”…and then they do it as well…
 
Rather than hijacking someone else’s thread, I decided to make another one about this tiresome subject.

So me and a friend (of the opposite sex) want to go on a camping trip next month at a national park. We will probably be sleeping in a tent, but might spend a night in a hotel. Scandal here?

There’s absolutely no occasion of sin here. We’ve never dated, and we’ve been friends for so long now that I know nothing will happen.

So exactly how seriously am I supposed to take this scandal thing? Do I really have to concern myself with people’s mistaken beliefs? For all they know, this person could be my cousin. 🤷
Even if it was a cousin you should take separate rooms.
 
Rather than hijacking someone else’s thread, I decided to make another one about this tiresome subject.

So me and a friend (of the opposite sex) want to go on a camping trip next month at a national park. We will probably be sleeping in a tent, but might spend a night in a hotel. Scandal here?

There’s absolutely no occasion of sin here. We’ve never dated, and we’ve been friends for so long now that I know nothing will happen.

So exactly how seriously am I supposed to take this scandal thing? Do I really have to concern myself with people’s mistaken beliefs? For all they know, this person could be my cousin. 🤷
in addition to the good advice you’ve already received, i would like to add, you should consider that even though you trust yourself and your friend not to do anything immoral, you really cannot know how this may temp your friend, even if you are both comfortable together and have no intimate feelings for each other, it’s still normal and very possible to be tempted in that kind of situation, and you simply cannot know,
if you want to be a true friend, then put their soul first, even if they don’t care, you should.

it’s in circumstances like these that we are called to be soldiers of Christ, choosing what we know is right for the sake of Gods love and for the good of souls, and just look at it this way - what a good example of your faith and morals will you be showing to your friend by backing out of this, you will be giving more to them by that than by any fun you might have enjoyed by going, which would have only lasted a little while, whereas good examples like this can stay with someone a lifetime, not to mention the merit you would gain for it in heaven.
 
Such can also be a cause of scandal in various ways.

For example those who know they are doing this…or see them doing this…may think

“these guys are Christians …very solid Catholics…so it must be ok”…and then they do it as well…
I don’t believe that rises to the level of scandal in any way.
 
In any case…scandal or no…they ought not be staying together like that…
 
Sharing a tent with another person is not a sin.
Correct…for example me and my wife can share a tent…or me and my male friend…or me and my brother…

But a guy and and girl should not share a tent or hotel room…
 
Correct…for example me and my wife can share a tent…or me and my male friend…or me and my brother…

But a guy and and girl should not share a tent or hotel room…
But I may suspect that you and your wife are not married and so there still can be scandal. Or I may think that 2 males together is also an issue because either or both may have SSA.

Where is the line to be drawn? It seems the actual facts are not enough to determine because others may still think there is sin involved. I am seriously trying to discern the line. It makes no sense to me that the only strictly forbidden arrangement is unmarried opposite sex pairs.
 
Correct…for example me and my wife can share a tent…or me and my male friend…or me and my brother…

But a guy and and girl should not share a tent or hotel room…
It is **not **a sin to share a tent or a hotel room with a person you are not married to. Nor is it the sin of scandal to do so.

It may not be prudent for a variety of reasons, but it is not a sin.
 
But I may suspect that you and your wife are not married and so there still can be scandal. Or I may think that 2 males together is also an issue because either or both may have SSA.

Where is the line to be drawn? It seems the actual facts are not enough to determine because others may still think there is sin involved. I am seriously trying to discern the line. It makes no sense to me that the only strictly forbidden arrangement is unmarried opposite sex pairs.
This is why what is proposed above is not the sin of scandal. “Scandal” in *common *usage has come to mean something that the Catechism does not mean by scandal. It has come to mean something more akin to a breach in etiquette or decorum-- i.e. “it might look bad.” That is **not **the sin of scandal.
  • The sin of scandal is a Catholic politician voting for abortions.
  • The sin of scandal is a Catholic divorcing and remarrying.
  • The sin of scandal is a Catholic marching in a Gay Pride parade.
  • The sin of scandal is my CCD student witnessing me buying condoms when I have just taught them that contraception is a sin against the sixth commandment
.

The sin of scandal is **not **two people doing a non-sin which other people might *assume *is a sin without any reasonable basis.

If I, a married woman, have dinner with a male who is not my husband I have not committed the sin of scandal, even if Jane sees me and *assumes *I am having an affair. Even if Jane thinks “wow, it must be OK to have an affair because Rita is a great Catholic and is obviously having an affair” and goes off and has her own affair.

It is the sin of scandal if I actually have an affair, tell Jane about it, *encourage *her to have an affair because I don’t like her husband, convince her she needs to “be happy” and that means dumping her husband, or even if I in no way influence Jane to have an affair but I support her in the affair, approve of it, or encourage her to continue it. THAT is scandal.
 
It is **not **a sin to share a tent or a hotel room with a person you are not married to. Nor is it the sin of scandal to do so.

It may not be prudent for a variety of reasons, but it is not a sin.
Others would disagree with you.
 
But I may suspect that you and your wife are not married and so there still can be scandal. Or I may think that 2 males together is also an issue because either or both may have SSA.

Where is the line to be drawn? It seems the actual facts are not enough to determine because others may still think there is sin involved. I am seriously trying to discern the line. It makes no sense to me that the only strictly forbidden arrangement is unmarried opposite sex pairs.
Presumption would stand on us being married (such as from the rings on our fingers that look exactly alike and the child with us.

Presumption will stand on my friend and I not being homosexual. For one thing again that gold ring on my left hand…but even in general camping is something a couple of guys just do.

If it is done by a girl and a guy…they are either married…or seen to dating or living together…

Reason, prudence, modesty, chastity, reasonable avoidance of scandal…and other virtues…that is where the line is drawn.

An unmarried girl and guy ought not be sharing the same room or tent…(not only on grounds of what others may think). Just not something to be done.
 
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