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Holly3278
Guest
Hey everyone. Many times Muslims will say that Jesus never claimed to be God. How can one refute this claim? I am sure there are places in the Bible where Jesus did in fact claim to be God.
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thistle
Guest
John 8:58 Jesus said to them, “Amen, amen, I say to you, before Abraham came to be, I AM.”
John 10:30 “The Father and I are one.”
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TimothyH
Guest
Jesus says, “I am God” over and over and over in the Gospels, We hust have to understand a little about how the Jews lived and worshipped, and something about the Old Testament to see it.
For the Son of Man is Lord of the sabbath. (Matthew 12:8)
Jesus said this as part of his response to the Pharisees who accused him of sinnning by breaking the law of Moses. One of the commandments of Moses was to remember the sabbath.
***Remember the sabbath day—keep it holy. Six days you may labor and do all your work, but the seventh day is a sabbath of the LORD your God **… For in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, the sea and all that is in them; but on the seventh day he rested. That is why the LORD has blessed the sabbath day and made it holy. (Exodus 20:8-10,11) *
The sabbath was given to man by God himself. God made the sabbath. God blessed the sabbath. God hade the sabbath holy. The Phariesses were scholars of the Mosaic law and they knew this well. But Jesus states that he is “Lord of the Sabbath”. This would have been shocking to the Phariesees because the only one who could possibly be “Lord of the sabbath” is God himself. In stating that he is in command of the Sabbath, Jesus is stating his equivalence with God.
Jesus tells the Pharisess that he is “Lord of the sabbath” and thereby proclaims his equivalence with God, and to underscore it, he miraculously cures the man with the withered hand on the sabbath in the presence of the Phariesses. This not only supports his statement that he is God, but proves it.
At the judgment the queen of the south will arise with this generation and condemn it, because she came from the ends of the earth to hear the wisdom of Solomon; and there is something greater than Solomon here. (Matthew 12:42)
King Solomon recieved his wisdom from God himself, and Jesus states that he is greater than Solomon and his wisdom.
I say to you, something greater than the temple is here. (Matthew 12:6)
This would have been an amazing statement to anyone who heard it. The temple in Jerusalem was considered to be the most important place in all of creation by the Jews. The temple was the center of the universe, half way between Heaven and Hell, and the most important thing in all of creation. God himself gave the plans for the temple and God himself dwelt in the temple with men. Worshipping at the temple in Jerusalem was the most important thing a Jew would ever do. The only thing greater than the temple is God himself who dwelt in the temple, and Jesus claims that those who heard his words were standing in the presence of something greather than the temple.
Remember that the only thing greater than the temple was God himself who dwelt in the temple.
There are subtle statements like this all through the Gospels. These are from one chapter alone! We have to know a little about the Old Testament and understand who Jesus is speaking to and the context of what he is saying to undersand it, and we have to look for it. Jesus makes these subtle and not so subtle hints many times.
-Tim-
For the Son of Man is Lord of the sabbath. (Matthew 12:8)
Jesus said this as part of his response to the Pharisees who accused him of sinnning by breaking the law of Moses. One of the commandments of Moses was to remember the sabbath.
***Remember the sabbath day—keep it holy. Six days you may labor and do all your work, but the seventh day is a sabbath of the LORD your God **… For in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, the sea and all that is in them; but on the seventh day he rested. That is why the LORD has blessed the sabbath day and made it holy. (Exodus 20:8-10,11) *
The sabbath was given to man by God himself. God made the sabbath. God blessed the sabbath. God hade the sabbath holy. The Phariesses were scholars of the Mosaic law and they knew this well. But Jesus states that he is “Lord of the Sabbath”. This would have been shocking to the Phariesees because the only one who could possibly be “Lord of the sabbath” is God himself. In stating that he is in command of the Sabbath, Jesus is stating his equivalence with God.
Jesus tells the Pharisess that he is “Lord of the sabbath” and thereby proclaims his equivalence with God, and to underscore it, he miraculously cures the man with the withered hand on the sabbath in the presence of the Phariesses. This not only supports his statement that he is God, but proves it.
At the judgment the queen of the south will arise with this generation and condemn it, because she came from the ends of the earth to hear the wisdom of Solomon; and there is something greater than Solomon here. (Matthew 12:42)
King Solomon recieved his wisdom from God himself, and Jesus states that he is greater than Solomon and his wisdom.
I say to you, something greater than the temple is here. (Matthew 12:6)
This would have been an amazing statement to anyone who heard it. The temple in Jerusalem was considered to be the most important place in all of creation by the Jews. The temple was the center of the universe, half way between Heaven and Hell, and the most important thing in all of creation. God himself gave the plans for the temple and God himself dwelt in the temple with men. Worshipping at the temple in Jerusalem was the most important thing a Jew would ever do. The only thing greater than the temple is God himself who dwelt in the temple, and Jesus claims that those who heard his words were standing in the presence of something greather than the temple.
Remember that the only thing greater than the temple was God himself who dwelt in the temple.
There are subtle statements like this all through the Gospels. These are from one chapter alone! We have to know a little about the Old Testament and understand who Jesus is speaking to and the context of what he is saying to undersand it, and we have to look for it. Jesus makes these subtle and not so subtle hints many times.
-Tim-
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PumpkinSeed
Guest
Islam’s prophet Mohammad denies that Jesus is the son of God. He denies the crucifixion. He denies that Jesus is our savior. This is what the bible has to say about Mohammad’s claims against Jesus:
1 John 2 18-27
Dear children, this is the last hour; and as you have heard that the antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come. This is how we know it is the last hour. They went out from us, but they did not really belong to us. For if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us; but their going showed that none of them belonged to us. But you have an anointing from the Holy One, and all of you know the truth. I do not write to you because you do not know the truth, but because you do know it and because no lie comes from the truth. Who is the liar? It is whoever denies that Jesus is the Christ. Such a person is the antichrist—denying the Father and the Son. No one who denies the Son has the Father; whoever acknowledges the Son has the Father also.As for you, see that what you have heard from the beginning remains in you. If it does, you also will remain in the Son and in the Father. And this is what he promised us—eternal life. I am writing these things to you about those who are trying to lead you astray. As for you, the anointing you received from him remains in you, and you do not need anyone to teach you. But as his anointing teaches you about all things and as that anointing is real, not counterfeit—just as it has taught you, remain in him.
1 John 4: 1-6
Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world. This is how you can recognize the Spirit of God: Every spirit that acknowledges that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God, but every spirit that does not acknowledge Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you have heard is coming and even now is already in the world. You, dear children, are from God and have overcome them, because the one who is in you is greater than the one who is in the world. They are from the world and therefore speak from the viewpoint of the world, and the world listens to them. We are from God, and whoever knows God listens to us; but whoever is not from God does not listen to us. This is how we recognize the Spirit of truth and the spirit of falsehood.
In conclusion, The Holy Bible is very clear that Mohammad is not of Christ. He does not have the holy spirit. And the fact that he denies Jesus as the son means that Mohammad is not of God. I hope you enjoyed the verses
1 John 2 18-27
Dear children, this is the last hour; and as you have heard that the antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come. This is how we know it is the last hour. They went out from us, but they did not really belong to us. For if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us; but their going showed that none of them belonged to us. But you have an anointing from the Holy One, and all of you know the truth. I do not write to you because you do not know the truth, but because you do know it and because no lie comes from the truth. Who is the liar? It is whoever denies that Jesus is the Christ. Such a person is the antichrist—denying the Father and the Son. No one who denies the Son has the Father; whoever acknowledges the Son has the Father also.As for you, see that what you have heard from the beginning remains in you. If it does, you also will remain in the Son and in the Father. And this is what he promised us—eternal life. I am writing these things to you about those who are trying to lead you astray. As for you, the anointing you received from him remains in you, and you do not need anyone to teach you. But as his anointing teaches you about all things and as that anointing is real, not counterfeit—just as it has taught you, remain in him.
1 John 4: 1-6
Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world. This is how you can recognize the Spirit of God: Every spirit that acknowledges that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God, but every spirit that does not acknowledge Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you have heard is coming and even now is already in the world. You, dear children, are from God and have overcome them, because the one who is in you is greater than the one who is in the world. They are from the world and therefore speak from the viewpoint of the world, and the world listens to them. We are from God, and whoever knows God listens to us; but whoever is not from God does not listen to us. This is how we recognize the Spirit of truth and the spirit of falsehood.
In conclusion, The Holy Bible is very clear that Mohammad is not of Christ. He does not have the holy spirit. And the fact that he denies Jesus as the son means that Mohammad is not of God. I hope you enjoyed the verses
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TimothyH
Guest
Yea, but thowing it back in the face of muslims by saying, “Here is what my God says about you and your God!” probably isn’t going to do much to convert them to Christ.Islam’s prophet Mohammad denies that jesus is the son of God. He denies the crucifixion. He denies that Jesus is our savior. This is what the bible has to say about Mohammad’s claims against Jesus:
1 John 2 18-27
Dear children, this is the last hour; and as you have heard that the antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come. This is how we know it is the last hour. They went out from us, but they did not really belong to us. For if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us; but their going showed that none of them belonged to us. But you have an anointing from the Holy One, and all of you know the truth. I do not write to you because you do not know the truth, but because you do know it and because no lie comes from the truth. Who is the liar? It is whoever denies that Jesus is the Christ. Such a person is the antichrist—denying the Father and the Son. No one who denies the Son has the Father; whoever acknowledges the Son has the Father also.As for you, see that what you have heard from the beginning remains in you. If it does, you also will remain in the Son and in the Father. And this is what he promised us—eternal life.
I am writing these things to you about those who are trying to lead you astray. As for you, the anointing you received from him remains in you, and you do not need anyone to teach you. But as his anointing teaches you about all things and as that anointing is real, not counterfeit—just as it has taught you, remain in him.
1 John 4: 1-6
Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world. This is how you can recognize the Spirit of God: Every spirit that acknowledges that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God, but every spirit that does not acknowledge Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you have heard is coming and even now is already in the world. You, dear children, are from God and have overcome them, because the one who is in you is greater than the one who is in the world. They are from the world and therefore speak from the viewpoint of the world, and the world listens to them. We are from God, and whoever knows God listens to us; but whoever is not from God does not listen to us. This is how we recognize the Spirit of truth and the spirit of falsehood.
In conclusion, The holy bible is very clear that Mohammad is not of christ. He does not have the holy spirit. And the fact that he denies Jesus as the son means he is not of God. I hope you enjoyed the verses
AKA more flies with honey. That’s not how people get converted. It isn’t going to make the OP any friends within the muslim community either.
-Tim-
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The_Scott
Guest
Problem with all this, though.
Islam claims that the Bible was deliberately tampered to adhere to some unorthodox viewpoint.
Therefore, if you said to a Muslim: “Matthew 12:8 says that he is Lord of the Sabbath! And John 8:58 says that he was before Abraham!” He may easily reply saying, “Yes, that is true what the Bible says, but it is a corrupted version. The real version is now lost. That’s one of the main points in Mohammed’s coming…to reinstate the true faith.”
So quoting Scripture on Christ’s divinity would do nothing…it’s as if you would be quoting the New Testament to Jews. They don’t believe in it. Muslims take it another step, though, in saying that the New Testament is corrupted.
Islam claims that the Bible was deliberately tampered to adhere to some unorthodox viewpoint.
Therefore, if you said to a Muslim: “Matthew 12:8 says that he is Lord of the Sabbath! And John 8:58 says that he was before Abraham!” He may easily reply saying, “Yes, that is true what the Bible says, but it is a corrupted version. The real version is now lost. That’s one of the main points in Mohammed’s coming…to reinstate the true faith.”
So quoting Scripture on Christ’s divinity would do nothing…it’s as if you would be quoting the New Testament to Jews. They don’t believe in it. Muslims take it another step, though, in saying that the New Testament is corrupted.
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PumpkinSeed
Guest
In the Quaran, did Mohammad present any proof that the bible was tampered with?
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Ontheway
Guest
There is no possibility of a dialog with the muslims. They believe in the Koran as the word of God. This effectively puts an end to any dialog about Jesus, since they deny His divinity.
They are eager to discredit anything in the Bible that is not confirmed in the Koran.
The Koran does state that Jesus is in heaven and will come to judge the living and the dead. You can ask them why Jesus was taken up to heaven and Mohamed was not and if Jesus is not God, how does He get to be the judge at the end of times.
Also, their prophet states in one place in the Koran that the Bible is the truth. The whole Bible, and not just parts. His later statements contradict that. Ask your friends how a prophet can contradict his own statements.
They are eager to discredit anything in the Bible that is not confirmed in the Koran.
The Koran does state that Jesus is in heaven and will come to judge the living and the dead. You can ask them why Jesus was taken up to heaven and Mohamed was not and if Jesus is not God, how does He get to be the judge at the end of times.
Also, their prophet states in one place in the Koran that the Bible is the truth. The whole Bible, and not just parts. His later statements contradict that. Ask your friends how a prophet can contradict his own statements.
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PumpkinSeed
Guest
There is a verse in the quaran where Mohoammad actually mocks christian for believing Jesus is Christ, yet he says that if we are “good”, we can still get into heaven.
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panevino
Guest
Im no expert and could easily be wrong, but I understand that the Quran presents a misunderstanding of the Christian view of Mary and the trinity.
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PumpkinSeed
Guest
Mohammad says that Jesus was born of a virgin. There is a whole chapter on it called “the virgin” I believe that’s what its called.
Of course the muslims don’t believe in the trinity, because they don’t believe Jesus is Christ. They don’t believe in the holy spirit.
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panevino
Guest
Sorry for giving wrong impression, I know. I had a copy and it was great to learn how much is included about Mary and Jesus.
What i was trying to say (badly) is that there is a passage that appears to suggest that christinas believe that Mary is part of the trinity or atleast in some way divine.
ill try to find the passage.
This is what I mean by a misunderstanding of Christian doctrine .
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The_Scott
Guest
When God says, ‘Jesus, son of Mary, did you say to people, “Take me and my mother as two gods alongside God”?’ he will say, ‘May You be exalted! I would never say what I had no right to say—if I had said such a thing You would have known it: You know all that is within me, though I do not know what is within You, You alone have full knowledge of things unseen.’" - Quran 5:116
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PumpkinSeed
Guest
You’re right. When Mohammad said that the trinity was false he called it as “father, MOTHER, holy spirit”.
So yes, he got the trinity wrong. Seems like quite a mistake for a “prophet”.
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JimmytheButcher
Guest
There is no answer or rebuttal to Muslim claims of anytype. It is the same with Mormons. They are birds of a feather in that they are both philosophically volunteeristic in their ideas of objective truth. They both use the Bible and the Fathers to select what they want and anywhere there is a contradiction they pull the old canard out of their socks, “The Catholic Church deliberately changed the Bible to hide the real gospel (or the real quran if you will)!”
These two eggs are the hardest shells to crack.
Enlighten the Muslim or the Mormon on the nature of objective truth and that is going a long, long way. It is in my estimation the first jumping off point, most effective, is defining in correct philosophical language what love is.
These two eggs are the hardest shells to crack.
Enlighten the Muslim or the Mormon on the nature of objective truth and that is going a long, long way. It is in my estimation the first jumping off point, most effective, is defining in correct philosophical language what love is.
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AmbroseSJ
Guest
Depends. Are you speaking of a specific Muslim who questioned you, or are you talking about Muslims in general? If the former, I would engage the fellow on the point of his even reading the Bible. If the latter, I would say nothing.
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thistle
Guest
You are right. The Muslims are hypocrites. When the Bible supports what they say they say it is not corrupt. When it does not support what they say they contend it is corrupt.
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panevino
Guest
Thanks
I was thinking of this one…
5:73:Sahih International
They have certainly disbelieved who say, **" Allah is the third of three." **And there is no god except one God. And if they do not desist from what they are saying, there will surely afflict the disbelievers among them a painful punishment. 74 So will they not repent to Allah and seek His forgiveness? And Allah is Forgiving and Merciful. 75 **The Messiah, son of Mary, was not but a messenger; [other] messengers have passed on before him. And his mother was a supporter of truth. They both used to eat food. **Look how We make clear to them the signs; then look how they are deluded.
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JonathonofOhio
Guest
What is says on the inside of their temple pretty much sums it up for me: “Jesus is not the son of God, because God cannot have a son.”
Apparently they are so full of themselves that they can even dictate what God can and can not do.
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Elisabeth51
Guest
Actually, if I understand one of my good friends when we’ve talked about religion–she is Muslim–they say God cannot have a son because sex is disgusting and dirty so God is not going to do that, sex makes you unclean, God is perfect, so God is not going to do that, not even think about it, apparently even the thought requires washing because the thought can make you unclean. At least that is what I get from her explanation of why God can’t have a son.
I think they can be converted, I have met a couple of ex-Muslims who are now faithful Christians, but I think what has been said by someone else is right, you have to go at it another way, they believe parts of our scriptures are corrupted, logic has to be shown with love and you have to start with what is in common–the Old Testament. It’s not impossible, it just takes patient and logical speech.
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