Answers for Atheists

[Bruno_Schulz]

**Atheists view of Christianity is: It’s man-invented, countering fear of death, wish for live after death, longing for vengeance of spoilers. All ostensible and not really believed so and if after all seriously meant that way; in a narrow minded humanly manner, tributary to an encapsulated way of thinking – truly illiberal to unrestricted own thinking.

Their answers I often heard in hospitals, where they couldn’t walk away, hardly might be called a realistic way of thinking, for vengeance could be carried out by human judgement; fear of death is fear of dying – for death they think, they won’t experience – like everlasting unconsciousness – simply not being – ending up in nothing.

So far, so good. Good? Not really. It would be good for them – if they would be content with that.
If things consequently would be solved that atheistic way, disbeliever couldn’t care less about Christianity, Bible, God and the lot, and “live happily ever after”.

But that’s not so. Atheists – once you get into discussion with them about God (as I often did) you sense highly emotional, hot flushes of… - I don’t know; is it anger up to rage? Rage about what?

Saint Catherine of Genoa said: “Never able to find any peace of mind are those, who came apart from Jesus.”

The question to them is: What, if it all is true?!

Atheists have to continuously drown that all the same continuously in them upcoming question, in a loud and firm: NO – IT’S ALL RUBBISH – I COULDN’T CARE LESS – THERE IS NO GOD! (What then to them if there is God after all, as Christians know?!)

What they do not understand is: We try to tell them out of love – as it would be easier to shut up and talk small talk. They however think we would be pushy.
But when you see a friend walking right into his disaster – aren’t you obliged to pull him back?
**

 

[twb1621]

Atheists view of Christianity is: It’s man-invented, countering fear of death, wish for live after death, longing for vengeance of spoilers. All ostensible and not really believed so and if after all seriously meant that way; in a narrow minded humanly manner, tributary to an encapsulated way of thinking – truly illiberal to unrestricted own thinking.

Their answers I often heard in hospitals, where they couldn’t walk away, hardly might be called a realistic way of thinking, for vengeance could be carried out by human judgement; fear of death is fear of dying – for death they think, they won’t experience – like everlasting unconsciousness – simply not being – ending up in nothing.

So far, so good. Good? Not really. It would be good for them – if they would be content with that.
If things consequently would be solved that atheistic way, disbeliever couldn’t care less about Christianity, Bible, God and the lot, and “live happily ever after”.

**But that’s not so. Atheists – once you get into discussion with them about God (as I often did) you sense highly emotional, hot flushes of… - I don’t know; is it anger up to rage? Rage about what? **

Saint Catherine of Genoa said: “Never able to find any peace of mind are those, who came apart from Jesus.”

The question to them is: What, if it all is true?!

Atheists have to continuously drown that all the same continuously in them upcoming question, in a loud and firm: NO – IT’S ALL RUBBISH – I COULDN’T CARE LESS – THERE IS NO GOD! (What then to them if there is God after all, as Christians know?!)

**What they do not understand is: We try to tell them out of love – as it would be easier to shut up and talk small talk. They however think we would be pushy. **
But when you see a friend walking right into his disaster – aren’t you obliged to pull him back?

We have a few different philosophies in atheism so lets consider what we are referring to;
**ATHEISM. **Denial of a personal God who is totally distinct from the world he created. Modern atheism has become so varied and widespread that the Second Vatican council identified no less than eight forms of disbelief under the single term atheismus: “Some people expressly deny the existence of God.

Others maintain that man cannot make any assertion whatsoever about Him. Still others admit only such methods of investigation as would make it seem quite meaningless to ask questions about God.

Many, trespassing beyond the boundaries of the positive sciences, either contend that everything can be explained by the reasoning process used in such sciences, or, on the contrary, hold that there is no such thing as absolute truth. With others it is their exaggerated idea of man that causes their faith to languish; they are more prone, it would seem, to affirm man than to deny God.

Yet others have such a faulty notion of God that when they disown this product of the imagination their denial has no reference to the God of the Gospels.

There are also those who never enquire about God; religion never seems to trouble or interest them at all, nor do they try to see why they should bother about it” (Church in the Modern World, I, 19). In the light of this array of infidelity, it was only logical for the Council to declare that atheism is one of the greatest problems facing mankind in the world today. (Etym. Greek atheos, denying the gods, without a god.)

It is a harsh ignorance of any knowledge of God.

What it comes down to is how we present ourselves in the way we live and from there we have only one possible opportunity, which is dependant on whether the person of atheistic persuasion is open-minded enough to even hear any suggestions one may make. Jesus did not pursue anyone during His ministry, it was up to those interested or already believing in His teachings to come to Him and listen with an open mind willing to hear, to learn. A person who is not even willing to hear what the supporting information is will be too close minded to learn anything. The hardest Atheist I have met who actually researched Christianity in a non-biased approach as a historic subject including both the Old Testament and New Testament would in time have no other desire than to convert to Christianity. Historically and through verification within many fields of historic study, there is too much that confirms the existence of God and the Salvation of our Lord Jesus. For the most hard-core atheist I recommend this non-biased approach. However, it is realistic to accept the fact that there will always be those who refuse to recognize the existence of a Creator.

 

[StMagdalene79]

Sway them by the example of your love. They do believe in love.

 

[Bruno_Schulz]

**
I was told the below part of my posting, is hard to be understood:

All ostensible and not really believed so and if after all seriously meant that way; in a narrow minded humanly manner, tributary to an encapsulated way of thinking – truly illiberal to unrestricted own thinking.

What I meant was:
Nonbelievers say, all about believe and faith is ostensible (pretended or supposed), not really believed by Christians. Nonbelievers see believe out of their narrow minded humanly manner, because their way of thinking is encapsulated in „it can’t be because it’s not scientifically proved”. An illiberal thinking compared to Christian unrestricted thinking as it is taught in the Bible: e.g. 2Cor 3,17 - 1Cor 8,9 – Gal 2,4 etc.

Sorry – my pidgin English…
Is that now to be understood in a way or still a heap of shards ?

Yes, there are many kinds of irreligious and I know the differences. I simply covered them all in the word ATHEIST, knowing that’s incorrect. Faithless, nonbelievers, heathens, pagans, agnostics and others who think they know better

But when we first meet anyone looking down at Christianity, it doesn’t really matter which refusing group he belongs to.

The question remains:
What should be our brotherly and loving answer, so a person who refuses to believe, because he or she thinks “there is no God”?

Mostly such talks occur out by blind chance and it’s usually little time to discuss the matter broad and widely. But there must be an answer, that firmly tells the atheist, there is more behind that what I had thought. And this must make him be interested to hear more about it.

**
PS:
Please give me a word that covers all who doubt and/or disbelieve in God

 

[agangbern]

**
The question remains:
What should be our brotherly and loving answer, so a person who refuses to believe, because he or she thinks “there is no God”?
**

There is no need to convince him that there is God. For God is everywhere. God can whisper to us through the little things around us. It is upon us to recognize that whisper. When we recognize his whisper, invite your friend to see what you see or hear what your hear.

 

[Bruno_Schulz]

**Last answer I’m afraid, missed the point.

It’s not about “a friend of mine”, but any non-believers we casually meet and small talk leads to believe or not to believe.

Worse reaction would be: “There is no need to convince him that there is God. For God is everywhere.”

We know that. But he or she doesn’t believe so and we’ve got Christ’s order to mission.
**

 

[agangbern]

**Last answer I’m afraid, missed the point.

It’s not about “a friend of mine”, but any non-believers we casually meet and small talk leads to believe or not to believe.

Worse reaction would be: “There is no need to convince him that there is God. For God is everywhere.”

We know that. But he or she doesn’t believe so and we’ve got Christ’s order to mission.
**

OK, if he is not your friend, then with this concern for him that you are showing he could be your friend.

What was Christ’s order to mission? Did Christ order us to “go and convince everyone that there is God”?

 

[twb1621]

I was told the below part of my posting, is hard to be understood:

All ostensible and not really believed so and if after all seriously meant that way; in a narrow minded humanly manner, tributary to an encapsulated way of thinking – truly illiberal to unrestricted own thinking.

**What I meant was: **
Nonbelievers say, all about believe and faith is ostensible (pretended or supposed), not really believed by Christians. Nonbelievers see believe out of their narrow minded humanly manner, because their way of thinking is encapsulated in „it can’t be because it’s not scientifically proved”. An illiberal thinking compared to Christian unrestricted thinking as it is taught in the Bible: e.g. 2Cor 3,17 - 1Cor 8,9 – Gal 2,4 etc.

**Sorry – my pidgin English… **
Is that now to be understood in a way or still a heap of shards ?

Yes, there are many kinds of irreligious and I know the differences. I simply covered them all in the word ATHEIST, knowing that’s incorrect. Faithless, nonbelievers, heathens, pagans, agnostics and others who think they know better

But when we first meet anyone looking down at Christianity, it doesn’t really matter which refusing group he belongs to.

**The question remains: **
What should be our brotherly and loving answer, so a person who refuses to believe, because he or she thinks “there is no God”?

Mostly such talks occur out by blind chance and it’s usually little time to discuss the matter broad and widely. But there must be an answer, that firmly tells the atheist, there is more behind that what I had thought. And this must make him be interested to hear more about it.

PS:
Please give me a word that covers all who doubt and/or disbelieve in God

The best word? How about the “unfortunate”…

Those that I have come across who do not believe I simply tell them they can’t believe in something they do not really know anything about, and if they say they don’t want to hear it, I tell them that regardless of what they choose to believe or not to believe, they will still stand in judgment with the rest of us regardless, so wouldn’t be better to find out about it before that time comes? We can only plant the seed… it’s up to the grace of God from there. Jesus did not coerce anyone to believe in Him and neither are we to. If the person doesn’t take interest sincerely pursuing knowledge of God, what he or she learns but doesn’t care to believe will not serve them. It is a willful act to seek God, He doesn’t want us to push anyone against their will.
Then you pray for them…

 

[Bruno_Schulz]

**Right. Jesus did not coerce anyone to believe in Him, but He gave us the order in Mark 16,15: “Go into all the world and preach the good news to all creation. Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.“

So, we are held to give witness of the truth.

Furthermore we are given the commandment Love your neighbour e.g. in Mat 5,4 or Joh 13,34.

How could we, when we see our next walking into his disaster, not warn him?

1972 I went in a group of Italians up to the vent of the volcano Aetna/Sicily. Our guide had to bring someone back and wasn’t present. There was a sign in Italian: “Don’t walk any further, vent breaks”. I don’t understand Italian and went to the edge of the volcano. Ground under me gave way into the volcano – I struggled panicky but finally made it back on solid ground. Almost I had ended up in that lava down there.

The stupid Italians did not warn me. They did not held me back. They should have shouted and done whatever to make me not go ahead. It gave them a shock and they won’t forget this situation as I never forget it.

It’s all the same situation, when we don’t care. Had they cared, they where not pushing me – to them a absolute stranger - against my will, but it would have been Christian love to do anything I don’t go this wrong way.

We too simply can’t let our next walk right into his doom, without pulling him back or at least telling him. Let’s remember Acts 4,20:
“It is impossible for us not to speak about what we have seen and heard!” (In other words: what whe where taught and we therefore know)**

 

[agangbern]

**

We too simply can’t let our next walk right into his doom, without pulling him back or at least telling him. Let’s remember Acts 4,20:
“It is impossible for us not to speak about what we have seen and heard!” (In other words: what whe where taught and we therefore know)**

Therefore, you know what you are suppose to do.You don’t have to doubt. Just do it.

 

[Bruno_Schulz]

**the question is not - to do or not to do -
the question is - how to do it - so they get interested and listen instead of reject.

The short theme could be instead of “Answers for Atheists”;
“which answers would attract atheists, so they risk a step forward into the knowledge on Christianity” (or similar)

You say: “Do so.” But it’s not my private matter, but we all are involved. We all are asked, no; ordered by Jesus Christ do do so.**

 

[agangbern]

The command is clear, "19Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in[a] the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age." biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+28:19-20

The answer to your “how” is there. Let us just be sure that we don’t become puff-up and run against the Church. For nothing would attract an atheist unless the Father himself would draw him to His only-begotten Son. It is not human power but of God.

 

[twb1621]

Right. Jesus did not coerce anyone to believe in Him, but He gave us the order in Mark 16,15: “Go into all the world and preach the good news to all creation. Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.“

"But remember He also said if the people do not accept you kick the dirt off your feet and leave them." He knew there would always be those you just can’t get through to no matter how hard you try.

So, we are held to give witness of the truth.

Furthermore we are given the commandment Love your neighbour e.g. in Mat 5,4 or Joh 13,34.

**How could we, when we see our next walking into his disaster, not warn him? **

Its ok to warn him, but he will not always accept your warning and his salvation is based on his acceptance in this case of God.

1972 I went in a group of Italians up to the vent of the volcano Aetna/Sicily. Our guide had to bring someone back and wasn’t present. There was a sign in Italian: “Don’t walk any further, vent breaks”. I don’t understand Italian and went to the edge of the volcano. Ground under me gave way into the volcano – I struggled panicky but finally made it back on solid ground. Almost I had ended up in that lava down there.

The stupid Italians did not warn me. They did not held me back. They should have shouted and done whatever to make me not go ahead. It gave them a shock and they won’t forget this situation as I never forget it.

It’s all the same situation, when we don’t care. Had they cared, they where not pushing me – to them a absolute stranger - against my will, but it would have been Christian love to do anything I don’t go this wrong way.

**We too simply can’t let our next walk right into his doom, without pulling him back or at least telling him. Let’s remember Acts 4,20: **
“It is impossible for us not to speak about what we have seen and heard!” (In other words: what whe where taught and we therefore know)

I understand your desire to do all you can to help others find their way to God. That is a good desire to have. But in the example you referred to above with the volcano, you can see although the signs were there, you didn’t understand them just as those who do not believe can’t understand your belief in God. When you almost fell in, you were faced with the danger directly and seeing the threat to your existance, you struggled to be saved. This is what happens to many atheists. They do not accpet the possibility God exists until they are faced with their own mortality, then they open up to the possibilities.

Remember Bruno, Jesus does want us to spread the word, but when others refuse to accept the word, we are to walk away and pray for their awareness.

 

[twb1621]

the question is not - to do or not to do -
the question is - how to do it - so they get interested and listen instead of reject.

The short theme could be instead of “Answers for Atheists”;
"which answers would attract atheists, so they risk a step forward into the knowledge on Christianity" (or similar)

You say: “Do so.” But it’s not my private matter, but we all are involved. We all are asked, no; ordered by Jesus Christ do do so.

Hypothetically, often they will have to approach the edge of that volcano you spoke of before seeing the danger…

Bruno, as hard as it might be to accept, you have to realize if Jesus Himself could not convince everyone to accept God, and many including the Apostles were martyred trying to convince the world of the presence of God, neither will you have that ability. your heart felt desire to enlighten those who you have the opportunity will be recognized by God regardless of your success rate.

 

[Bruno_Schulz]

**Oh, my success-rate doesn’t matter at all.
It’s OUR success-rate that matters. Ours as the Catholic-world-family. If Jesus’ apostles had no success, we wouldn’t know a thing about Jesus.

Sorry “agangbern” but we can’t work into the tube, or our club, baptizing these fellows. Though my mom, being a hospital nurse in 1935, baptized a lot of children who’s parents didn’t want them to be baptized or where orphans.

Of course we all know, that more often than not, our witness for God is in vain. But we did our best.
Our best? Well…… - was is our best?! Can we do better? Sure we can.
We shouldn’t walk away after first attempt went wrong.

But it’s anyhow good, when everybody we know, knows that our most valuable treasure we have, is to be a Christian.

Today the question came up in semi-Christian small-talk was:
Do some pay for their sins in lifetime?
I made it a new thread and asked this question here:

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?p=4947950#post4947950

if you’re interested……
**

 

[agangbern]

**
Sorry “agangbern” but we can’t work into the tube, or our club, baptizing these fellows. Though my mom, being a hospital nurse in 1935, baptized a lot of children who’s parents didn’t want them to be baptized or where orphans.
**

You don’t have to be sorry to me. It was not I who made that command. Be sorry to Christ for he was the one who gave that command which in effect you are saying you can’t work out/into.

 

[Bruno_Schulz]

**

Be sorry to Christ for he was the one who gave that command which in effect you are saying you can’t work out/into.

I never got a note that there was another post and found it accidentally.

What are you talking about?
Do you want Christians to baptize strangers on the road if they tell you they are atheists?
Yes, Jesus told us to babtize people. But be reasonable. Jesus didn’t say go hawk around with christening. You can’t spend sacraments to people who refuse them. Have you ever done?

All you can do as a first step, is to convnce them about your believe. If they refuse constantly, you are helpless. Even Jesus didn’t walt around christening everybody. Many didn’t believe Him.
Before Jesus comes to people, they must come to Him. All we can do, is helping them to find Jesus.**