Anti-Green Philosophy

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There’s been some anti-environmentalism expressed here at CAF and also in Western society.

I suggest this comes from the same Enlightenment roots that founded American society and opposed the Catholic Church, and is based on old and faulty concepts of person and society.

While there has been much good in Enlightenment philosophy that corrected several evils – it brought us democracy and human rights – it has been more and more abused in modern times. I’m thinking the extreme tea-partyism that rejects Catholic social teaching is an example of it.

The concept of person and society promoted by the 18th c. Enlightenment philosophers was of original, free and autonomous individuals – independent of others and free of societal (and Church) restrictions and having total RIGHTS – who came together to form society to reduce inter-human conflict and secure other protections, only giving up a tiny portion of their freedoms as necessary for society to function. And then kings and the Catholic Church started abusing their power and taking away freedoms beyond what was outlined in the original social contract. The environment in their view was merely passive resources to be exploited, without any repercussions, such as pollution, etc.

This is in contrast to traditional societies that stress DUTIES over rights (or at least in the context of stressing rights, as the other side of the “rights” coin) and understood humans as emeshed in society and interdependent. These traditional societies focused on The Ten Commandments, dharma (righteousness and duties), and the Li – not “The Ten Rights.” And re the environment, traditional societies had a deep respect – a sabboth for the land, and God’s commandment to “keep the garden” (not destroy it), and God did not create the world to be a wasteland, but to be habitable (Is 45:18). They were closer to their source of subsistence (it wasn’t just a bunch of packaged food in some supermarket), and understood the environment needed care and protection.

The Enlightenment view is also in contrast to modern science that tells us we are interdependent with the environment – for human viability we need healthy air to breathe, water to drink, food to eat, materials with which to build our homes and products; and we need to avoid highly toxic chemicals permeating our skin, etc. We impact the environment and it impacts us (keeping us alive or killing us if polluted). The Enlightenment view is also in contrast to modern social science that tells us we humans are interdependent and have always been social beings, not autonomous beings wandering thru the forest, without others, without mothers or fathers.

And I think the reason this environmentally and socially harmful Enlightenment philosophy (if carried to its extreme, as it is here in America) is being used to abuse the environment (our subsistence base) and our brethren is because we live in a human-built world and get our social needs fulfilled by gadgets. We have socially contructed the environment or nature as wild creatures in wild places (polar bears and rainforest) beyond the fringe of civilization – perhaps cute at times, but expendable. We do not perceive the environment as the air we breathe, the water we drink, the food we eat, and the climate that makes our agriculture and food production successful. We see it as something way apart from our insulated selves, and the anti-greens then complain that greens are saving baby seals, but don’t care about human babies – without realizing human babies too need the environment to be viable.

Anti-greens would reject what JPII, BXVI, and Pope Francis say about creation protection, and twist their meanings, perhaps giving very faint lipservice to stewardship – as if simply saying that word has fulfilled ones DUTY to stop harming people and others of God’s creation thru environmental harms.

If I’m wrong in my assessment, let me hear your educated views on this. I’m not an expert in philosophy.
 
There’s been some anti-environmentalism expressed here at CAF and also in Western society.

I suggest this comes from the same Enlightenment roots that founded American society and opposed the Catholic Church, and is based on old and faulty concepts of person and society.

While there has been much good in Enlightenment philosophy that corrected several evils – it brought us democracy and human rights – it has been more and more abused in modern times. I’m thinking the extreme tea-partyism that rejects Catholic social teaching is an example of it.

The concept of person and society promoted by the 18th c. Enlightenment philosophers was of original, free and autonomous individuals – independent of others and free of societal (and Church) restrictions and having total RIGHTS – who came together to form society to reduce inter-human conflict and secure other protections, only giving up a tiny portion of their freedoms as necessary for society to function. And then kings and the Catholic Church started abusing their power and taking away freedoms beyond what was outlined in the original social contract. The environment in their view was merely passive resources to be exploited, without any repercussions, such as pollution, etc.

This is in contrast to traditional societies that stress DUTIES over rights (or at least in the context of stressing rights, as the other side of the “rights” coin) and understood humans as emeshed in society and interdependent. These traditional societies focused on The Ten Commandments, dharma (righteousness and duties), and the Li – not “The Ten Rights.” And re the environment, traditional societies had a deep respect – a sabboth for the land, and God’s commandment to “keep the garden” (not destroy it), and God did not create the world to be a wasteland, but to be habitable (Is 45:18). They were closer to their source of subsistence (it wasn’t just a bunch of packaged food in some supermarket), and understood the environment needed care and protection.

The Enlightenment view is also in contrast to modern science that tells us we are interdependent with the environment – for human viability we need healthy air to breathe, water to drink, food to eat, materials with which to build our homes and products; and we need to avoid highly toxic chemicals permeating our skin, etc. We impact the environment and it impacts us (keeping us alive or killing us if polluted). The Enlightenment view is also in contrast to modern social science that tells us we humans are interdependent and have always been social beings, not autonomous beings wandering thru the forest, without others, without mothers or fathers.

And I think the reason this environmentally and socially harmful Enlightenment philosophy (if carried to its extreme, as it is here in America) is being used to abuse the environment (our subsistence base) and our brethren is because we live in a human-built world and get our social needs fulfilled by gadgets. We have socially contructed the environment or nature as wild creatures in wild places (polar bears and rainforest) beyond the fringe of civilization – perhaps cute at times, but expendable. We do not perceive the environment as the air we breathe, the water we drink, the food we eat, and the climate that makes our agriculture and food production successful. We see it as something way apart from our insulated selves, and the anti-greens then complain that greens are saving baby seals, but don’t care about human babies – without realizing human babies too need the environment to be viable.

Anti-greens would reject what JPII, BXVI, and Pope Francis say about creation protection, and twist their meanings, perhaps giving very faint lipservice to stewardship – as if simply saying that word has fulfilled ones DUTY to stop harming people and others of God’s creation thru environmental harms.

If I’m wrong in my assessment, let me hear your educated views on this. I’m not an expert in philosophy.
Perhaps it is all a response to the extreme radical environmentalists that choose to jam things down the throats of Americans. Perhaps it’s people like Nanny Bloomberg that try to force their eating and drinking styles on us. Perhaps it’s PETA that once thought streams in NY state that end in kill such as fishkill brook need to be renamed because it’s not nice to kill fish. (Not realizing that kill is Dutch for brook/stream). What about when they decided to insult Christians and post bulletin boards with Christ stating that He was a vegetarian and we should be also. Perhaps it’s caring for turtle eggs more than aborted babies. They all fall under the general schema of liberal and anti Christian.

Now for me…I recycle. I use energy efficient lights. Have increased the insulation in my house and so on. Oh…BTW…I also have 4 beautiful dogs that are well cared for by me and my wife.

God Bless
 
Perhaps it is all a response to the extreme radical environmentalists that choose to jam things down the throats of Americans. Perhaps it’s people like Nanny Bloomberg that try to force their eating and drinking styles on us. Perhaps it’s PETA that once thought streams in NY state that end in kill such as fishkill brook need to be renamed because it’s not nice to kill fish. (Not realizing that kill is Dutch for brook/stream). What about when they decided to insult Christians and post bulletin boards with Christ stating that He was a vegetarian and we should be also. Perhaps it’s caring for turtle eggs more than aborted babies. They all fall under the general schema of liberal and anti Christian.

Now for me…I recycle. I use energy efficient lights. Have increased the insulation in my house and so on. Oh…BTW…I also have 4 beautiful dogs that are well cared for by me and my wife.

God Bless
I am a bit familar with environmental extremists – you can also throw in ELF (Earth Liberation Front) that engages in crimes, like burning SUVs or homes being built in sensitive ecosystems. However, I have never met any of these types personally. I know over 100 environmentalists personally (and many more thru the internet and other sources), and none are at all like that. In fact the vast majority are moms concerned about a viable earth for their children.

I guess in every movement, there are extremists that make the whole movement seem bad or ridiculous, and then are used as excuses for others not to do the good things the mainstream movement promotes. (Just like I said about the Enlightenment – there were good things about it that helped overcome previous abuses, but it is also being used for evil).

I’m glad the whackos have not dissuaded you from doing the right things to ensure a viable and healthy environment for future generations. Bless you.

My sense is, however, that anti-green ideas and people, have demoralized some from doing more to help the environment – I know they have demoralized me. I lose hope thinking that my little efforts won’t amount to anything, if others refuse to lift their little fingers to do something. I’ve created The Little Way of Environmental Healing to help overcome this demoralization and do those little things, no matter what others are doing or failing to do. But still I get demoralized.
 
Perhaps it is all a response to the extreme radical environmentalists that choose to jam things down the throats of Americans. Perhaps it’s people like Nanny Bloomberg that try to force their eating and drinking styles on us. Perhaps it’s PETA that once thought streams in NY state that end in kill such as fishkill brook need to be renamed because it’s not nice to kill fish. (Not realizing that kill is Dutch for brook/stream). What about when they decided to insult Christians and post bulletin boards with Christ stating that He was a vegetarian and we should be also. Perhaps it’s caring for turtle eggs more than aborted babies. They all fall under the general schema of liberal and anti Christian.
Did it ever occur to you that they “jam things down the throats of Americans” because it is a matter of great urgency? That if we don’t do something drastic within the next decade, there won’t be anything we can do at all?

And btw, Bloomberg and PETA really have nothing to do with environmentalism.

Personally, I think people are resisting environmentalism because of polarization of ideologies. Conservatives see environmentalists as mainly liberal and associate liberalism with pro-gay marriage, pro-abortion, socialistic ideas, and environmentalism, a genuinely good thing, unfortunately becomes guilty by association.
 
At the essence of “anti-green,” is something you do not want to see. Just avoid such things whenever possible and you will be happier for it.
 
Did it ever occur to you that they “jam things down the throats of Americans” because it is a matter of great urgency? That if we don’t do something drastic within the next decade, there won’t be anything we can do at all?
I heard that “next decade” claim back when I was in high school - in 1992. You do the math.

Alan
 
I heard that “next decade” claim back when I was in high school - in 1992. You do the math.
After over 20 years, I highly doubt you’re remembering it right. Also, my use of “decade” was hypothetic. It was not meant to be precise.
 
There’s a lot of pseudo-science on the green side. I am sorry but it is way down on my list of concerns behind 1) abortion, 2) the attack on marriage 3) helping the homeless… …93) anti-social behaviour on the bus 94) whether Arsenal win on Saturday… Yeah it’s about 119th

I believe George Pell is a sceptic. I too am a sceptic. I believe there is a problem but it is overplayed for nefarious means and also to protect the rich green lobby
 
After over 20 years, I highly doubt you’re remembering it right. Also, my use of “decade” was hypothetic. It was not meant to be precise.
A hypothetical emergency is a contradiction in terms.

If you want to convince others to your position so as to make them sacrifice for it, you need facts, not hypotheticals.

ICXC NIKA
 
Farsight001;10544316**:
Did it ever occur to you that they “jam things down the throats of Americans” because it is a matter of great urgency?
That if we don’t do something drastic within the next decade, there won’t be anything we can do at all?

And btw, Bloomberg and PETA really have nothing to do with environmentalism.

Personally, I think people are resisting environmentalism because of polarization of ideologies. Conservatives see environmentalists as mainly liberal and associate liberalism with pro-gay marriage, pro-abortion, socialistic ideas, and environmentalism, a genuinely good thing, unfortunately becomes guilty by association.

There ya go! And yes they do have to do with environmentalism and animal rights. But apparently you didn’t read about what I take upon myself to do.
 
There’s a lot of pseudo-science on the green side. I am sorry but it is way down on my list of concerns behind 1) abortion, 2) the attack on marriage 3) helping the homeless… …93) anti-social behaviour on the bus 94) whether Arsenal win on Saturday… Yeah it’s about 119th

I believe George Pell is a sceptic. I too am a sceptic. I believe there is a problem but it is overplayed for nefarious means and also to protect the rich green lobby
I’m a meteorologist of 33+ years. Know many climatologists and mets. Very few agree with AGW. Our common agreement however is that we cannot continue to destroy what we were made stewards. The cause is much greater than just AGW. But as long as you have people willing to jam it down our throats and people posting in support of that…you will not get much cooperation.
 
When I was in high school in the early 70s…there was a book written called The Weather Conspiracy, The Coming of the Next Ice Age. That same author (at least for now) is a global warning fanatic. And that was a warning about the “next decade”
 
You make some valid points. It is somewhat important but I just can’t get enthused by it when marriage is under threat and unborn babies need protecting. There is so much else to exercise my feeble talents
 
Personally, I think people are resisting environmentalism because of polarization of ideologies. Conservatives see environmentalists as mainly liberal and associate liberalism with pro-gay marriage, pro-abortion, socialistic ideas, and environmentalism, a genuinely good thing, unfortunately becomes guilty by association.
I believe the basic argument goes something like this:

Anyone who supports abortion rights is evil and everything they say is a lie. Liberals support abortion rights. Therefore, they are evil and everything they say is a lie. So, I will refuse to listen to anything they may have to say.

The problem with this is that it isn’t just liberals who say we need to make a conscious effort to protect the environment. Our church leaders have been doing this for years, and they’re not talking about simply taking personal responsibility. They mean using temporal authority to restrain the excesses of capitalism. Our church leaders are not stupid, they know that there is simply too much profit in pollution to leave it up to the free market.

It is ALWAYS the poor who get hit first and hardest by environmental disasters, which is why Pope Francis made a special appeal to the world leaders assembled for his installation and to Catholics world wide, to protect the environment. A green environment is the foundation of all corporal works of mercy. What good is it to offer the poor food and water that has been poisoned or shelter that is toxic? We are called to care for the sick, not make people sick. And a respectful burial doesn’t mean much if the person digging your grave could have prevented your death if they had only listened.
 
A hypothetical emergency is a contradiction in terms.
The emergency is not hypothetic. The decade was.
If you want to convince others to your position so as to make them sacrifice for it, you need facts, not hypotheticals.
If there were a meteor headed toward earth, but the scientists could not pin down the exact day on which it would happen, the meteor strike would not be hypothetical. In the same way, just because I don’t know the exact year off the top of my head and don’t care to look it up, doesn’t mean its hypothetical.
There ya go! And yes they do have to do with environmentalism and animal rights. But apparently you didn’t read about what I take upon myself to do.
Let me rephrase then. Perhaps they are involved in environmentalism. However, the efforts to reduce drink sizes or end caged animal farming has nothing to do with environmentalism. The overlap is coincidental, not causal.
 
I’m a meteorologist of 33+ years. Know many climatologists and mets. Very few agree with AGW. Our common agreement however is that we cannot continue to destroy what we were made stewards. The cause is much greater than just AGW. But as long as you have people willing to jam it down our throats and people posting in support of that…you will not get much cooperation.
Your “many climatologists” belong to a small a minority.

97% of active climatologists agree that human activity is causing global warming

http://scienceblogs.com/deltoid/wp-...f2d57067c1845ddfc23-DoranAndZimmerman2009.png

This graph is based on a survey of 3146 Earth Scientists conducted by Peter Doran and Maggie Kendall Zimmerman.
 
Let me rephrase then. Perhaps they are involved in environmentalism. However, the efforts to reduce drink sizes or end caged animal farming has nothing to do with environmentalism. The overlap is coincidental, not causal.
I think you’ve already agreed that there is a mindset “brotherhood” amongst that type. Please remember that I said I do my best! 🙂
 
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