Any ex-pro-life staunchly pro-choicers out there?

[vera_dicere]

Where does 50% come from? “Studies reveal that anywhere from 10-25% of all clinically recognized pregnancies will end in miscarriage.” American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists (ACOG)

They might be referring to implantation failure. I’ve seen studies that say the number is about 75% of conceptions don’t implant.

I would still really like to konw how said studies determine such a number.

But yeah, I’ve seen the 25% of women will miscarry.

 

[Charlemagne_II]

• We may find out more about the development of the soul during pregnancy in the future and all of this can be ‘put to bed’. *

What medical doctors have to tell us about the body and the mind is always interesting. What they might presume to tell us about the soul would, I think, be erroneous and presumptuous in the extreme.

 

[Fidelis_Unus]

Most people I know wouldn’t sacrifice their life for a stranger, regardless of their age. Hmm…

Well, I’d say you are surrounding yourself with the wrong sort of people. I believe that most people I know certainly would. As a Catholic ALL human life is precious, not just the ones that you deem to be precious.

Frankly, I am grateful at the unlikehood that you would be there if I or my children were in danger. With my disability and the fact that I don’t work (at home Mom), I would likely be one of the last people you would save. Then again, as a Catholic, I would prefer it that way. First shall be last and all that. Also, too, my might shoot yourself in the foot as I have been praying for you.

 

[Apryl]

Most people I know wouldn’t sacrifice their life for a stranger, regardless of their age. Hmm…

I hope you are mistaken.

A lot of people say what they would or would not do… but when the time comes that all changes.

But we aren’t talking about a stranger, are we? We are talking about a person’s child. I don’t have any kids, but just the thought of something that is a part of me, whether planned or wanted or not, it’s still a part of me.

About a year ago, one of my cats (I seem to have a house full of them) got out. I didn’t notice until the morning. My first reaction was that I needed to go to work, and the cat would be fine. (It’s a CAT!)

That afternoon, there was freezing rain. I was in a painic. Then, as the days went by, I got into a major league funk. I could barely get any work done. I wasn’t crying, exactly, but all of my co-workers knew, ‘oh, boy… that cat isn’t back yet’.

The cat has brown and blonde hair, it has fur. It has a tail. Honestly, it doesn’t look at thing like me or any one else in my family. It’s a CAT. I have too many.

The cat finally returned, but I could not imagine my offspring, some part of my body, something I was intrusted to care for even, being in a precarious situation and me not do all that I could to protect it.

Now, I do know of more than a few mothers who would sell their kid for a pack of cigarettes (or less). I do know of more than a few fathers who would protect someone else’s kids before their own. So, I know that there are people who would not do what they could for their child. I wouldn’t claim that attitude, or embrace that in a friend/acquaintence. But I know it’s out there.

We also have paid assassins and people who would love to pull the plug on an elderly person. Is that the mentality we want to cultivate and encourage?

 

[Fidelis_Unus]

MikiBee

*Who said abortion is murder? Where can I find this truth? Don’t say the bible… because not everyone believes in God. And there are some that believe in God, but believe the bible is written by fallible men. *

I think you might get a better answer from the GodlessProlifers, a group started by self-avowed, Complete Heretic who is a secular humanist. I won’t state all their reasons here, however, it is worth reading it you really want to have discussion. Here is an excerpt from Jim Trageser:

"Whether fighting child labor in Pennsylvania or battling Franco in Catalan, advocating for women’s suffrage in Britain or exposing Hitler’s eugenics program to an unwilling world, it was progressives who argued that human beings had a value intrinsic to their mere existence. That we didn’t need a God or a king to grant us value – we possessed it by the mere fact that we lived.

And that we had obligations to one another; that to threaten any of us was to threaten us all. That no one ever had a right to inflict harm on another except in self-defense"

"When abortion opponents warned 25 years ago that Roe vs. Wade would result in a steady erosion of societal value for human life, they were scoffed at. Today we have Jack Kevorkian killing off people whose primary illness is depression and driving around L.A. with their organs in an ice chest, hawking them to the first taker. *This is progressive?

• It is fascism, born of the same American shallowness that gave us child labor and chattel slavery. Twenty-five years after we legalized killing our own unborn offspring, we now have the government imposing the death penalty on children and the retarded, doctors proposing that we withhold food from handicapped infants, and parents suing hospitals for NOT aborting their children. Where’s Josef Mengele when you need him?"

Part of the problem with not imposing our :beliefs on others is this. We are simply reacting to others imposing their ‘beliefs’ on unborn children in a very permanent way. We are simply reacting to the horror of what is being done. It is impossible to get past the fact that people are deciding that these babies, fetuses, whatever word you use, will die …often for convenience.

The question I keep asking is this: *What kind of society kills their offspring? *

 

[Fidelis_Unus]

I appreciate your thoughts, Larry. Here are a few of my own. (sorry for the length, you touched on multiple issues). We simply have to keep talking and asking the hard questions.

You know, God gives us the choice. Sin or not. He could take that choice away. So, is God pro-choice?

In a word, NO. God gives us free will and exhorts us to choose the good choice, always. It superfluous anyway, as we all suffer consequences for those choices. In terms of abortion, one person’s choice kills another human being and social justice dictates that we stand up for the other human being’s inalienable right to live.

Before you say you are pro-life you need to understand what that means. I don’t think people do.

I, respectully, disagree. The difference between your examples (McDonalds employees vs abortion) is that a human life is ended by abortion. Besides eating at McDonald’s doesn’t kill people (well, ok, can ignore Fast Food Nation here?).

Employees may work at McDonald’s as a result of their life choices, babies haven’t had a chance to make any choices. Yes, we have a responsibility to work for fair wages, provide for the poor, etc. That’s a different thread (social justice), but I get your comparison. Fact is, those who were allowed to live have more complicated issues. Their lives are no more important than those who never had the chance to make their own choices and have complicated issues. Why should someone’s comfort or financial situation be more important to us than another’s life?

Part of the problem is that our society has become so enmeshed and complicated that it is hard to only do business with ‘good’ business. Besides, that might be considered prejudiced, or even a hate crime, if I were only to do business with Christians. Ever give to United Way. They provide money for Planned Parenthood. Some businesses expect all employees to participate. I did not, without stating why, but boy was I hassled.

I know it is beyond the ability of the Church to figure it out, but what is pro-life really?

I completely disagree here, too. The Catholic Church has men and women, priests and religious, who have spent 100’s of years contemplating, praying about, discussing, debating, meditating on, by philosophers, historians, theologians, etc. Our Church was established by Jesus Christ, blessed by the Holy Spirit, and supported by the Communion of Saints. I trust their judgement far better than my own, because I respect the length and breadth of their training, experience and prayer life.

Pro-life is valuing all human life, particularly that of the weak and helpless. I do not know a single person who is pro-life that does not believe this. Why would you think that we You may find the best answers to this question in reading Theology of the Body and Humanae Vitae.

When you say another person can not get an abortion, then, by the same logic you can say that a person cannot be a Mormon. Where do you draw the line?

Well, those are my thoughts anyway. You raise an important issue, we must be pro-life in all things, not just for the unborn. The idea that anyone thinks the Pro-Life group as a whole does NOT care for all life pretty upsetting. Is there something that makes you think the Pro-Life movement is only about protecting the unborn?

Bottom line for me, Larry, is that the unborn are the weakest, most helpless creatures of humanity. Are we not called to protect them?

 

[Abu]

larry85704
When you say another person can not get an abortion, then, by the same logic you can say that a person cannot be a Mormon. Where do you draw the line?

You can’t “say” that another person “cannot be a Mormon” because people have free will to choose good and avoid evil, and choosing to be a Mormon may seem right to someone who does not know that Jesus of Nazareth founded His Church to teach the truths of faith and morals infallibly, and provide the sacraments that lead to holiness.

Abortion is totally different since it is the killing of an innocent human being, which is always wrong. Human life is sacred and begins from conception

The embryo is a living human being, a distinct, self-integrating organism internally directing its own growth and already possessing the active capacity to develop itself to further stages of maturity of its own kind retaining intact its distinctiveness and identity, as its DNA shows — the same DNA sequence that he or she will have in every cell of his or her fully developed body — this is what science has confirmed. This development is from the embryo to the foetus, infant, child and adolescent. You or I are the same being that was once an adolescent, and before that a toddler, an infant, a foetus and an embryo. To have destroyed the being at any of these stages would have destroyed you or me.

 

[rainbowlitez]

God isn’t killing anyone, certainly not zygotes, embryos or foetuses.

There are in place certain biological and physical laws, the world has fallen because of sin, and death is its wage. There are studies that say obese women have higher chances of miscarriage, smoking, drinking, bad diet, these are all factors that inhibit the ability of the zygote to implant or the foetus to survive till birth. God isn’t saying “Well, you won’t make it past implantation, so I won’t give you a soul”. That stinks of a really twisted kind of pre-destination if you ask me.

Basically, God isn’t killing the ZEF, the woman’s body which is no longer perfect and adhering to those biological laws is simply not fit for the ZEF at that particular time of death for the unborn child.

I mean, really, its the same sort of thing to say well, if the child is going to die of SIDs, or will be stillborn, why should God give it a soul. Or abortion, if God knows everything, He knows the woman will abort so why bother giving the “blob” a soul? Its theologically repugnant.

As for your friends’ experiences with miscarriage, well everyone’s different. My mother miscarried a child about 6 months after I was adopted. She was only about 8 weeks along, yet, she named him, and even now, almost 30 years later, I see a sadness in her eyes when the topic of miscarriage comes up. Recently my cousin experienced miscarriage, and my mum had discussions with her because my mum was the only one in the family who really knew what it was like.

I’ve met way more women who have mourned their miscarried babies then I have who just brushed it off. In fact the only woman who miscarried that didn’t mourn whom I met was actually going to have an aboriton in a few weeks and was so greatly pleased.

Miscarriage is an experience that is either grieved for or brushed off depending on the personal opinions of the mother. I think society has to play a part too, given that society is so pro-abortion it has pushed this “its just a blob” mentality, so women who miscarry feel they are being “silly” for greiving for the loss of something that millions of women kill every year.

Miscarriage can destory a woman’s very soul, and to deminish it in anyway is an indication of a horrific societal embrace of a culture of death.

Miscarriage is very, very common, no one can box women into either catagory, but we have to be willing to acknowledge that for some women it is heart breaking and for others its just another part of a reproductive life span.

I thank you for sharing your views which I have read with interest. To me it comes down to a question of when the soul is present…and this is something I can’t resolve with reason or science. I am open to the possibilities. If the life and soul are present at conception then I agree that that teaching of the church is right…I plan to look into church writing on these issues further as well as reading the point of view of those who contest the validity of church teaching.

But thank you for sharing your opinion.

 

[Rence]

I thank you for sharing your views which I have read with interest. To me it comes down to a question of when the soul is present…and this is something I can’t resolve with reason or science. I am open to the possibilities. If the life and soul are present at conception then I agree that that teaching of the church is right…I plan to look into church writing on these issues further as well as reading the point of view of those who contest the validity of church teaching.

But thank you for sharing your opinion.

That’s wonderful. I really hope you do look into the Church writings and do so with an open heart and mind. I’m sure your heart will lead you in the right direction if you do

 

[Abu]

rainbowlitez
I thank you for sharing your views which I have read with interest. To me it comes down to a question of when the soul is present…and this is something I can’t resolve with reason or science.

While not a dogma or doctrine, the Church has always accepted that ensoulment begins at conception.

The following extract from a long reply may be of interest from EWTN at:
ewtn.com/vexperts/showresult.asp?RecNum=532386&Forums=0&Experts=0&Days=2009&Author=&Keyword=souls+of+identical+twins&pgnu=1&groupnum=0&record_bookmark=1&ORDER_BY_TXT=ORDER+BY+ReplyDate+DESC&start_at=

“The overwhelming majority of individuals on this earth now and since the beginning of hominid development have been, and are, derived from one fertilized egg without further separation of the blastomeres. If exceptions to this fact prompt a new definition for the right of ensoulment, it would be done for a very small fraction of the total human population now and in the future. Further, there would be no certain way ethically to withhold ensoulment from stages prior to formation of the blastocyst, because the factors or stimuli which produce monoygotic twins are not known and therefore not predictable.”

 

[Fidelis_Unus]

I thank you for sharing your views which I have read with interest. To me it comes down to a question of when the soul is present…and this is something I can’t resolve with reason or science. I am open to the possibilities.

If the life and soul are present at conception then I agree that that teaching of the church is right…I plan to look into church writing on these issues further as well as reading the point of view of those who contest the validity of church teaching.

But thank you for sharing your opinion.

This is something that I have never understood. If you agree that you do not KNOW, isn’t erring on the side of Life the humane thing to do? For me, not knowing exactly when the soul enters the body should make us MORE cautious about ending the life, not LESS.

no?

 

[DebCat129]

Ditto…I couldn’t have said it better. That is exactly how I feel. As much as I would hate to think of a living child being killed there are certain extreme circumstances.

It amazes me that no one does their due diligence…you believe all the misrepresentations out there…Now lets just stick to facts here and not your erroneous opinion…here are some examples:

FACT: Every 26 seconds a baby dies from abortion…thats 1.2 million babies each year…3288 each day…47% have two or more abortions… 46% OF ALL abortions are performed on women who choose to use abortion as their ONLY means of birth control. 55 abortions a day are performed on women carrying a child five months or older.(study done at Alan Guttmacher Institute 2008)

FACT: A woman can legally abort her unborn child at any time throughout her entire nine months of pregnancy…for any reason…According to survey data collected by abortion providers themselves, the overwhelming majority of all abortions-95%- are done as a means of birth control or to eliminate an unplanned pregnancy…AND HERE IS WHERE YOUR SORRY ARGUEMENTS CAN BE LAID TO REST…Only 1% of abortions are performed because of rape or incest; 1% because of fetal abnormalities; and 3% because of mothers health… that makes only 5% for the reasons listed previously…and 95% as a means of birth control…(Data collected from abortion providers and reported by Alan Guttmacher institute) Wow…Here some more…

FACT: Child abuse and abortion rates have followed strikingly similar paths since 1973… Legalizing abortion was supposed to help reduce child abuse, since it was assumed that most abused children were unwanted at birth…But this theory has been disproved by scientific studies as well as by obvious evidence that child abuse sharply increased after abortion became legal in 1973. Equally striking is the fact that a significant drop in the number of abortions since 1992 has been followed by a similar drop in the rate of child abuse…( US Department of Health and Human Services)

Dr Phillip Ney, a leading international expert on child abuse, writes in his studies on the connection between abortion and child abuse: “The initial hypothesis that there is a positive(increase) rather than a negative(decrease) relationship between child abuse is holding up after 14 years of collection data”(positive meaning increase) …“Elective abortion is an important cause of child abuse” …“Recent evidence indicates many women harbor strong guilt feelings long after their abortions…Guilt is one important cause of child battering and infanticide. Abortion also lowers a woman’s self esteem and there are studies reporting a major loss of self esteem in battering parents”…(P.Ney M.D. “Relationship between induced abortion and child abuse and neglect: Four studies” Pre and perinatal Psychology Journal, 8(1) Fall 1993)

FACT: Legalizing abortion was NOT responsible for REDUCING ABORTION RELATED DEATHS!!!
According to data from the National Center for Health Statistics, the legalization of abortion was not responsible for reducing abortion related deaths…THE DISCOVERY of ANTIBIOTICS in the early 1940’s DID THAT by providing a treatment for infection…
By 1972, the year before the U.S Supreme court legalized abortion 39…did you get that? ONLY 39 women died from abortion related complications…in 1977, five years after abortion became legal 21 women died from abortion related complications!!! hum 21 women…and after abortion was made legal…thats only a difference of 18…(U.S. Department of Health & Human Services, Centers for Disease control)

FACT: and here’s the Kicker!!!
DR. Bernard Nathason, CO-Founder of NARAL (National Abortion Rights Action League), admits his group lied about the number of women who died from illegal abortions when testifying before the U.S Supreme court in 1972: “We spoke of ‘5,000-10,000 deaths a year.’ I confess that I knew the figures were totally FALSE…it was a useful figure, so why go out of our way to correct it with honest statistics?” Wow, in his own words…can we believe anything these people tell us?

FACT: The average abortion takes 5-10 minutes. The average wait for adoption is 5 years!
2,000,000 families in the U.S. are ready and waiting to adopt.
Only 25,000 American babies are placed for adoption each year.
Less then 10% of the 1,000,000 teens who will become pregnant will place their babies up for adoption, that means 45% will abort! Staggering isn’t it!!! (National committee for adoption 2008)

FACT: At 11 weeks all the baby’s organs are present and functioning.He or she breathes (fluid), swallows, digests, sleeps, dreams, wakes, and has ALL the body parts required to EXPERIENCE PAIN! From 11 weeks on all the child needs to BECOME a healthy newborn is NOURISHMENT and TIME!!! (U.S. Dept of Health & Human Services, CFDC)

Now I ask you to RE-THINK your stance…because it is based on faulty information!!!

Pro-Choice…Did you know that this was a well planned out marketing strategy conceived by a advertising agency "Madison Avenue advertising agency to be exact. It was wildly successful, because after all, the word “CHOICE” strikes at the very heart of what we as Americans hold most dear! ( Adweek’s Marketing Week, October 30, 1989)

But when you examine the facts behind the glossary label , you realize that the term “pro-Choice” isn’t about choice at all. It only offers one option: ABORTION! ( 1990 Dayton Right to Life Society, rvs. 2008)

Reply continues on next page!

 

[DebCat129]

Ditto…I couldn’t have said it better. That is exactly how I feel. As much as I would hate to think of a living child being killed there are certain extreme circumstances.

Continuation of my reply!

You’ve been duped, fooled and lied to. You should be mad! Your eternal salvation is on the line, and you let false information form your conscience!
The facts are available, you just have to do a little work. You should trust no one that has an agenda. You need to verify for yourself…But I find Americans are lazy, and the rely on those with a vested interest to distribute information.
AT LEAST NOW YOU CAN MAKE AN INFORMED DECISION!!! BUT PLEASE DO YOURSELF A FAVOR, LETS CALL ABORTION WHAT IT IS AND STOP SELLING IT UNDER THE GUISE OF CHOICE…ITS BEYOND ME THAT ANYONE WOULD CHOOSE TO MURDER THEIR OWN CHILD. I AM CONVINCED THAT IF WOMEN KNEW THE TRUTH ABOUT THE CHILDS DEVELOPMENT, THEY WOULD NOT OPT TO ABORT.
I AM PRAYING FOR YOU, BECAUSE YOU WILL BE HEALD ACCOUNTABLE FOR ANY ABORTION YOU WERE INVOLVED IN WETHER IT BE DIRECTLY, INDIRECTLY. I RECOMMEND YOU TALK TO YOUR PREIST TO FIND OUT HOW JUST SUPPORTING SOMEONES RIGHT TO HAVE AN ABORTION YOU ARE COMMITING MORTAL SIN.
GOOD LUCK AND GOD BLESS!

 

[DebCat129]

You can’t “say” that another person “cannot be a Mormon” because people have free will to choose good and avoid evil, and choosing to be a Mormon may seem right to someone who does not know that Jesus of Nazareth founded His Church to teach the truths of faith and morals infallibly, and provide the sacraments that lead to holiness.

Abortion is totally different since it is the killing of an innocent human being, which is always wrong. Human life is sacred and begins from conception

The embryo is a living human being, a distinct, self-integrating organism internally directing its own growth and already possessing the active capacity to develop itself to further stages of maturity of its own kind retaining intact its distinctiveness and identity, as its DNA shows — the same DNA sequence that he or she will have in every cell of his or her fully developed body — this is what science has confirmed. This development is from the embryo to the foetus, infant, child and adolescent. You or I are the same being that was once an adolescent, and before that a toddler, an infant, a foetus and an embryo. To have destroyed the being at any of these stages would have destroyed you or me.

Well said ABU…
Larry, Larry, Larry…You are comparing the right murder to religious freedom. They are so different…Lets talk about Hitler for a moment…He made it legal to kill any Jewish person, Jehovah witness, homosexual, Polish, disabled, Romanian,and so on…it was the law, so the Germans felt it was okay, after all they killed over 21 million people during the holocaust. Was it okay? No!

You need to distinguish the difference between Authentic Authority and Usurp Authority. I think you will see things in a new light. Just because something is legal does not make it right, and we as Christians need to have a well formed conscience so that we may discern the difference, and not be confused by all the lies and misrepresentations out there.

True freedom is not the right to do whatever we want…True freedom is to have the heart to do the right thing even when you don’t want to…That is true freedom…And It is slavery to think indulging in your every desire is freedom…and I pray for those who do…

 

[laura_kathleen]

You’ve been duped, fooled and lied to. You should be mad! Your eternal salvation is on the line, and you let false information form your conscience!

I AM PRAYING FOR YOU, BECAUSE YOU WILL BE HEALD ACCOUNTABLE FOR ANY ABORTION YOU WERE INVOLVED IN WETHER IT BE DIRECTLY, INDIRECTLY. I RECOMMEND YOU TALK TO YOUR PREIST TO FIND OUT HOW JUST SUPPORTING SOMEONES RIGHT TO HAVE AN ABORTION YOU ARE COMMITING MORTAL SIN.
GOOD LUCK AND GOD BLESS!

Number one, I dont appreciate when people who dont know me tell me that my eternal salvation is on the line, it makes any shred of truth in your argument null and void, so stop doing it.

Number two, you have no idea what I will or wont be held accountable for, and the thought that I havent already talked to a priest just continues to show that you do not know me and you should not presume to give me advice.

Number three, if you read the post that the quote you quoted was respondng to you would see that I defind pro-choice differently than just pro-death, I think that when it comes to what is legal, not what is moral, then there should not be laws that prevent women from being allowed to have abortions, just as there should not be laws against men and women being able to buy and use birth control, women should have choices when it comes to the baby they have concieved, this includes adoption, keeping the baby, aborting the baby. Pro-life is a stupid term to me, considering the fact that I dont know anyone anywhere that thinks that death is better than life, considering we are all alive, it is a term that makes people feel good, it makes you feel like the good guy so that you can attempt to make me feel like the bad guy but it doesnt.

Number four, just because I think something should be legal does not mean that I am going to do it or that I am going to assist someone else in doing it. Artificial birth control is legal but as a Catholic I dont use it, but I definitley think that other people should be using it. Smoking cigarettes is legal but I dont do it, and I dont want anyone around me to do it and smoking cigarettes is hazardous to not only your health but to everyone around you, so where is the pro-life demonstrations to get that outlawed since smoking is anti-life?

 

[Abu]

laura kathleen
Artificial birth control is legal but as a Catholic I dont use it, but I definitley think that other people should be using it.
I think that when it comes to what is legal, not what is moral, then there should not be laws that prevent women from being allowed to have abortions, just as there should not be laws against men and women being able to buy and use birth control, women should have choices when it comes to the baby they have concieved, this includes adoption, keeping the baby, aborting the baby.

A faithful Catholic may not support or seem to support that which is immoral by anyone – such as the intrinsic evil of contraception nor the abomination of abortion. The Catholic Church built Western civilization on the basis of reason and faith; now that reason and faith have been crippled by the Protestant Revolt, the so-called Enlightenment and relativism, error and sin have become gods. How is anyone to now the truth unless the Catholic proclaims it based on the natural moral law and Magisterial teaching?

Choice is not a god, and mankind has free will to choose good and avoid evil – any other choice is damnable. Unless and until a Catholic is prepared to follow Christ by assenting to His teaching through His Church he/she is not a faithful Catholic.

John Paul II teaches in *Evangelium Vitae *# 70: “Democracy cannot be idolized to the point of making it a substitute for morality or a panacea for immorality. Fundamentally, democracy is a “system” and as such is a means and not an end. Its “moral” value is not automatic, but depends on conformity to the moral law to which it, like every other form of human behaviour, must be subject: in other words, its morality depends on the morality of the ends which it pursues and of the means which it employs.

“The basis of these values cannot be provisional and changeable ‘majority’ opinions, but only the acknowledgment of an objective moral law which, as the ‘natural law’ written in the human heart, is the obligatory point of reference for civil law itself. If, as a result of a tragic obscuring of the collective conscience, an attitude of scepticism were to succeed in bringing into question even the fundamental principles of the moral law, the democratic system itself would be shaken in its foundations, and would be reduced to a mere mechanism for regulating different and opposing interests on a purely empirical basis.”

You reject Christ’s teaching through Pope John Paul II in *Evangelium Vitae *# 82 where the Pope quotes St Paul: “Preach the word, be urgent in season and out of season, convince, rebuke, and exhort, be unfailing in patience and in teaching.” (2 Tim 4:2). The Holy Father exhorts “all those responsible for catechesis and the formation of consciences…may they never be so grievously irresponsible as to betray the truth and their own mission by proposing personal ideas contrary to the *Gospel of life *as faithfully presented and interpreted by the Magisterium."

It is through the contraceptive mentality that the abortion mentality has flowered to the extent that Western nations are on a demographic slope to decline and irrelevance and the inability to support the aged, to be followed by the rest of the world.

 

[Redratfish]

I think that outlawing abortion will not olve the problem, women will still have abortions ut instead of going to a doctor in a sterile environment they will do with coat hangers or other dangerous and scary things. So if that is what you consider pro-choice then I am a Catholic who is also pro-choice. As far as ex-pro-life, I am that but only in the sense that I was pro-life because the Church is so sure it is the right way and I had not developed my fully informed conscionce (sorry for the spelling).

So should rape not be illegal? Its still done, even though its illegal. What about murder? People do it, and its illegal. In fact, why don’t we pay rapists for a clean room, that way there is less of a chance for infection? According to your logic, we should.

I don’t buy the “its going to happen anyway argument” except on issues that don’t have to do with morality.

 

[Abu]

laura kathleen
As far as ex-pro-life, I am that but only in the sense that I was pro-life because the Church is so sure it is the right way and I had not developed my fully informed conscience.

Apparently when you “fully informed your conscience” you then chose to reject what you wanted of Catholic doctrine – is that right?

 

[PaulinVA]

Pro-life is a stupid term to me, considering the fact that I dont know anyone anywhere that thinks that death is better than life…

I would respectfully suggest that you ponder, with your well-formed conscience, how abortion is not causing death. Two beating hearts go in, one comes out. Death.

So, yes, there are people who think that death for their baby is better than life for their baby.

 

[Abu]

Facing Reality
Take heart all you good people and continue to fight the good fight!

catholicnewsagency.com/ne…t-author-says/
Re-center marriages from contraception to Christ, author says

New York City, N.Y., July 1 (CNA) .- Patrick McCrystal, an Irish pharmacist and pro-life leader, has authored a book on the effect contraception has on marriages and on society as a whole. He calls contraception “a most potent destroyer of marital harmony,” urging couples to re-center their marriages upon Jesus Christ.

This week he is in New York City for the launch of his second book, “Who’s at the Centre of Your Marriage: The Pill or Jesus Christ?”

The contraceptive pill marked its 50th anniversary this year, provoking a variety of reactions. Time Magazine celebrated the creation of “the first medicine ever designed to be taken regularly by people who were not sick.”

However, movie star Raquel Welch published a commentary in the Daily Mail blaming the Pill for the decline of marriage, which she called “the cornerstone of civilization” that stabilizes society and provides a “sanctuary” for children.

“Most would be surprised to see me and Raquel Welch lining up on the same side of a debate, but she makes some very smart and accurate points in her column,” McCrystal commented. “While her diagnosis is correct, my book goes a step further to offer the prescription that can help heal ailing couples: re-centering their marriage on Christ.”

McCrystal stopped dispensing the contraceptive pill in 1993 because of its abortion-causing effects. Because of this, he lost his job and was unemployed for three years.

He has since spent thousands of hours in research, writing and speaking internationally on contraception and related issues.

Presently the chairman of Human Life International’s Ireland office, he resides in Northern Ireland with his wife Therese. He is a father of five children.

On Friday the writer will be joined in New York by Tony and Ann Crowe, a young Irish couple who will explain how contraception almost destroyed their marriage.