Any one tired?

[batman1973]

Thanks Jon.

To Batman: after thinking a bit more your post, I’d like to ask: You say that we are

By extension, if an Orthodox says that Catholic sacraments aren’t valid (or even just that they don’t know whether they’re valid or not), is he/she disrespecting us?

There’s too much name calling and all out disrespect on all sides. There have been several calls for peace by some of the more level headed posters who can appreciate the similarities in our communions. But, I have also seen there are many hot headed roman catholics who get away with more vitriol here than protestants.

 

[Peter_J]

There’s too much name calling and all out disrespect on all sides.

Agree with that, I can.

 

[benjohnson]

But, I have also seen there are many hot headed roman catholics who get away with more vitriol here than protestants.

Not to disagree too strenuously, but it seems to me that the moderators have banned quite a few Catholics - if I had to make an observation, I would say they let non-Catholics have more leeway.

Etymologically speaking, the phrase “Ecclesial Community” is not that unkind given that the Catholic way of looking at us would indicate even stronger language, and in practice, all Catholics I’ve met in the real work have been kind enough to refer to my church as a church.

Of course, I don’t remind my Catholic friends that the modern office of the Pope is anti-christ unless the day of the week starts with a consonant.

 

[benjohnson]

But I imagine it’s the reverse on Protestant forums. (Although I admit I cannot say with much certainty, not having spent much time on Protestant forums.)

If we’re speaking of the protestant forum that must not be named - well… it’s my opinion that Obi-Wan Kenobi’s description of Mos Eisley would apply.

 

[Peter_J]

If we’re speaking of the protestant forum that must not be named - well… it’s my opinion that Obi-Wan Kenobi’s description of Mos Eisley would apply.

I don’t think I’ve spent any time there. I have spent a bit of time on various subforums of a larger Christian venue.

 

[Isaiah45_9]

Yes, As a Lutheran, I get tired of Catholics baggin on Luther, making mock of our beliefs, et al. and disrespecting my church by calling it an “ecclesial community”. You all would get irritated and cry to the mods if I did such a thing.

Yeah, but at least you don’t have Lutherans, Calvinists, Baptists, Presbyterians, Pentecostals, Methodists, Non-Denominationals, Fundamentalists, Evangelicals, and who knows what other variation or concoction of mixed beliefs community - all criticizing you all the time…

It gets old really fast…

 

[steido01]

Yeah, but at least you don’t have Lutherans, Calvinists, Baptists, Presbyterians, Pentecostals, Methodists, Non-Denominationals, Fundamentalists, Evangelicals, and who knows what other variation or concoction of mixed beliefs community - all criticizing you all the time…

It gets old really fast…

Oh, Jose, this we most certainly have in common!

Lutheranism—with its sacramentalism and liturgical worship synthesized with its biblicism and evangelical proclamation—might serve as a bridge between the various factions of Christianity. Of course, it is not that simple.

If Lutheranism represents an “evangelical Catholicism” (a term favored by many confessional Lutherans), its paradoxes mean that it is likewise subject to attack from every side. Evangelicals consider it “too Catholic”—making fun of what they consider its stiff formality, its old-fashioned music, and its ancient liturgy and, more seriously, questioning how Lutherans can say salvation is by faith if they believe in baptismal regeneration and being appalled at the way the pastor says when he gives the absolution that he forgives people their sins. Catholics and Orthodox lump Lutheranism with all other Protestants—in fact, Lutherans are the worst Protestants because they started the dissolution of Christendom.

Within Protestantism, Calvinists attack Lutherans for “not going far enough in the Reformation,” for keeping papistical practices and idolatrous worship. Arminians attack Lutherans for not believing in the freedom of the will and for leaving the door open to anti-nomianism. Charismatics think Lutherans are “cold.” Fundamentalists say Lutherans are strong on doctrine but weak on morals.

touchstonemag.com/archives/article.php?id=11-03-014-f

 

[Peter_J]

… Lutherans, Calvinists, Baptists, Presbyterians, Pentecostals, Methodists, Non-Denominationals, Fundamentalists, Evangelicals, …

In terms of numbers of members, there are more Catholics than all of those put together.

 

[Isaiah45_9]

In terms of numbers of members, there are more Catholics than all of those put together.

But we are too busy -]worshiping /-] venerating our statues

 

[Isaiah45_9]

Oh, Jose, this we most certainly have in common!

Not even close, my friend, not even close

 

[JonNC]

Not even close, my friend, not even close

Where you might be right is in the fact that when we are criticized by protestants, it is because we are too much (in their view) like Catholics.

Take a moment to google David J. Stewart Lutherans. I think you will find the first 5 or so hits interesting.

Jon

 

[Peter_J]

Not even close, my friend, not even close

I hear what you’re saying, but I’m somewhat sympathetic to steido01’s situation as well.

What I mean is, when you’re in-the-middle (in his case, being both catholic and protestant) you generally come under fire from both sides.

To take a different example, we Catholics take fire for not being ecumenical enough, as do the Orthodox … *but *we also take fire for being too ecumenical.

 

[AbideWithMe]

Yeah, but at least you don’t have Lutherans, Calvinists, Baptists, Presbyterians, Pentecostals, Methodists, Non-Denominationals, Fundamentalists, Evangelicals, and who knows what other variation or concoction of mixed beliefs community - all criticizing you all the time…

It gets old really fast…

As far as who criticizes who the most, I think that’s a contest with no winner. Here at CAF, I think Evangelicals get the largest share of the criticism and denigration. We get it from Lutherans, Catholics, and Orthodox. It’s almost like the only good Evangelical is a converted Evangelical, to appropriate that nasty saying about “the only good Injun…” Sometimes a Catholic here will say something appreciative about Evangelicals, but I can’t remember the last time I’ve seen a Lutheran or Orthodox poster say anything positive about us Evangelicals.

I live in a predominately Lutheran area, the Pennsylvania German counties of southeastern PA. Where I was a young girl, I can remember more than a few incidents of classmates’ parents looking down their noses at the local Evangelical churches. Thankfully, I had close Lutheran-raised friends from school, and that snotty attitude seemed to me to lessen with passing generations.

I don’t think any one religious group acts more uncharitably to fellow Christians than another. ISTM that whichever group is predominant in a given area can be tempted to mistreat the minority groups without realizing what they’re doing.

 

[hn160]

As far as who criticizes who the most, I think that’s a contest with no winner. Here at CAF, I think Evangelicals get the largest share of the criticism and denigration. We get it from Lutherans, Catholics, and Orthodox. It’s almost like the only good Evangelical is a converted Evangelical, to appropriate that nasty saying about “the only good Injun…” Sometimes a Catholic here will say something appreciative about Evangelicals, but I can’t remember the last time I’ve seen a Lutheran or Orthodox poster say anything positive about us Evangelicals.

I live in a predominately Lutheran area, the Pennsylvania German counties of southeastern PA. Where I was a young girl, I can remember more than a few incidents of classmates’ parents looking down their noses at the local Evangelical churches. Thankfully, I had close Lutheran-raised friends from school, and that snotty attitude seemed to me to lessen with passing generations.

I don’t think any one religious group acts more uncharitably to fellow Christians than another. ISTM that whichever group is predominant in a given area can be tempted to mistreat the minority groups without realizing what they’re doing.

I grew up in Northeast Pennsylvania while there were lots of Lutheran, there were more Reform members. Some of the church buildings were occupied by both the Reform and Lutherans thus were called a Union Church. One Sunday was a Reform service and the next was Lutheran. The Reform always called the Lutherans as being too Roman Catholic which caused problems in the Lutheran Church. As result our crucifixes disappeared, we got individual glasses for Communion. It was like the Prussian Union was transferred to America. I believe that as a result that the Lutherans got tired of all this criticism.

 

[BlessedLDS]

Try being asked about polygamy every time I say I’m a Mormon. Apparently, my bosses jokingly and lovingly call me a polygamist or a future polygamist. It’s fun though.

I see it as an evangelical tool and a way to educate people on the LDS faith. As this past General Conference made a point of saying, members need to be missionaries and evangelize too!

 

[Peter_J]

Try being asked about polygamy every time I say I’m a Mormon.

Yeah, I can imagine how you’d get tired of that after a while.

 

[esieffe]

Try being the Lay Director of RCIA…LOL

I love it when I get the little visitors at the door (mormons and JW’s). It usually ends up with me chasing after them, trying to take a copy of the Catechism, or some other Catholic literature.

It is amazing how fast some of those little old ladies can run.

As a side note, Our rectory seems to be a target for some of these people. They knock on the door, and one of the priests (in their collar) comes to the door, and they start “evangelizing”.

Now that takes some chutzpah.

My Dad is an Episcopal Priest so it was always interesting when they came to the door, the Rectory door. Sometimes I would tell them the Rector was not in, or that I had blanket coverage [wish that were true…] If they asked me if I had any questions I would ask why there were no windows in Kingdom Hall. :doh2: Now I just nod nicely, thank them, close the door and recycle the watchtower mag.