Anyone here familiar with the UPCI?

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The United Pentecostal Church Int. This is the sect I came from. Due to the influence of my Mothers Family, I was raised in this sect. Even though my Fathers family were Catholic.

I have recently revisited their website and some of their forums. And apart from being guilty of the errors of Sabellus. They have even reawakened the ancient modalist heresy. I am convinced they are a nonchristian cult. And their are many who would concur.

Anyone else here, come from this group? Are have any experience with them?

Thank you and God Bless,

In cordibus Jesu et Mariae
Daniel
 
I met someone recently who might be from this group but I am not sure. She was listing all of these different Pentecostal groups and which ones were whom, but I was having trouble keeping up. I thought she said some sort of “United Pentecostal” but I wasn’t sure. When I asked about the start date of her particular church she had no idea what I meant.

I don’t know this group in particular but would be interested in hearing more.
 
Well, I understand the view that belief in the Trinity is essential to being a Christian, but I can’t agree. I agree of course that you must believe in the Trinity to be an orthodox Christian–to some extent this is simply a matter of Protestants using language one step down from Catholic language. I.e., for me anyone who believes in the Nicene Creed is basically orthodox, while other people for whom Jesus is central are still Christians but are heretics.

But there’s a further reason why I can’t rule the “Oneness” people out even to the same extent I can JW’s or Mormons. As far as I can tell, their opposition to the Trinity has a lot to do with a suspicion of what they see as an overly philosophical approach to Christianity. They don’t see why we can’t just say, “Father, Son, and Spirit are all God” and leave it at that. I think they’re seriously wrong. But I can’t listen to them describe the essence of what they believe and call them “non-Christians.” They believe in the same Jesus I do. They just have some mistaken ideas about Him.

I came to that conclusion in part through having a colleague in grad school who was Oneness (not UPC–he was Hispanic and belonged to a Spanish-speaking Oneness denomination). I disagree with him strongly, but I can’t call him a non-Christian.

Edwin
 
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Contarini:
Well, I understand the view that belief in the Trinity is essential to being a Christian, but I can’t agree. I agree of course that you must believe in the Trinity to be an orthodox Christian–to some extent this is simply a matter of Protestants using language one step down from Catholic language. I.e., for me anyone who believes in the Nicene Creed is basically orthodox, while other people for whom Jesus is central are still Christians but are heretics.

But there’s a further reason why I can’t rule the “Oneness” people out even to the same extent I can JW’s or Mormons. As far as I can tell, their opposition to the Trinity has a lot to do with a suspicion of what they see as an overly philosophical approach to Christianity. They don’t see why we can’t just say, “Father, Son, and Spirit are all God” and leave it at that. I think they’re seriously wrong. But I can’t listen to them describe the essence of what they believe and call them “non-Christians.” They believe in the same Jesus I do. They just have some mistaken ideas about Him.

I came to that conclusion in part through having a colleague in grad school who was Oneness (not UPC–he was Hispanic and belonged to a Spanish-speaking Oneness denomination). I disagree with him strongly, but I can’t call him a non-Christian.

Edwin
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hello Edwin.
I know “Cult” and “nonchristian” are strong terms. I use them not just because of the groups adherence to Sabellianism. even though i guess they could be forgiven of that. Given their lack of scriptural depth,and total ahistorical approach to Christianity in general. But what i percieve as “cultlike” practices.
A strong “cult of personality” built around local leaders.
Witchcraft,necromancy,spiritualism
Severe ostracizing of members who leave
I know this cult well,having spent my childhood and teens in it. For the most part.IMHO the laity are harmless zombies,intensely suspicious of others. (After all they are the only ones going to Heaven) I suppose they are to be pitied.

The good news is my Family have all left this group
Deo gratias!
 
Hi Daniel, do a search over at ezboard for ex-pentecostals. The site is mostly ex-UPC who are talking about their bad experiences in that denomination.
 
The Oneness Pentecostal heretics play the grand game of equivocation in their historical claims to be the “true church” that existed throughout history in small groups from Pentecost to 1913 where Ewart invented Oneness Pentecostalism. There were heretics from time to time that used the wrong baptismal formula. There were other heretics from time to time that denied the trinity. There were still other groups that experimented with ecstatic speech, i.e., speaking in tongues. What has not existed, however, is these three things – the criteria – at any one time throughout history until 1913.
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Thus, when these Oneness fanatics try to say on thing or another about the “truth” being practiced as they see it with this group or that group, do not let them get away with the central issue: three things must be present AT THE SAME TIME for a group to adhere to Oneness Pentecostalism: (1) Rejection of the Trinity (2) Baptism with the literal words spoken “in Jesus Name” by full immersion, and (3) requirement of speaking in tongues as the initial evidence of the Holy Spirit.
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Yes, maybe here and there only ONE of these was present in heretics here and there sporadically in history, but never AT ONE TIME and never continuously throughout history. Oneness Pentecostalism began with Ewart in 1913. It NEVER existed before this date.
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p212.ezboard.com/fexpentecostalforumsfrm7.showMessage?topicID=741.topic
 
QUICUMQUE VULT:
But what i percieve as “cultlike” practices.
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Well, I tend to be suspicious of the term “cultlike.” I’ve been rereading the letters of Ignatius of Antioch. I’m sure they would be considered highly “cultlike” today. (So would Paul’s letters, for that matter.)
A strong “cult of personality” built around local leaders.
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That can certainly be a problem, although there are elements of the letters of Paul and Ignatius, as I said, that could point in that direction. Still, the classical Christian tradition has always focused on the idea that Christian leaders should be humble and self-effacing. That’s often led to a lot of hypocrisy, but it’s a needed check on the boundless arrogance to which self-appointed religious leaders are prone.
Witchcraft,necromancy,spiritualism
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Those are very serious charges. Could you give some examples? I’ve never heard this–though my Hispanic Oneness friend does have a fairly sympathetic attitude to Latino folk religion.
Severe ostracizing of members who leave
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I don’t like this, and it certainly doesn’t go down well in modern culture. But it certainly has plenty of precedent in the early Church.

Edwin
 
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Contarini:
Well, I tend to be suspicious of the term “cultlike.” I’ve been rereading the letters of Ignatius of Antioch. I’m sure they would be considered highly “cultlike” today. (So would Paul’s letters, for that matter.)

I appreciate your reticence,to apply this term. I attribute it to your generous spirit. highly commendable.However the UPC exists in A closed world. One of its own making. members are threatened with “Blaspheming God” If they leave. IMexpertO that is cultlike.

That can certainly be a problem, although there are elements of the letters of Paul and Ignatius, as I said, that could point in that direction. Still, the classical Christian tradition has always focused on the idea that Christian leaders should be humble and self-effacing. That’s often led to a lot of hypocrisy, but it’s a needed check on the boundless arrogance to which self-appointed religious leaders are prone.

They go far beyond the example you give. Local leaders are exalted to the point of “living Saints” their word is law. they are feared and obeyed.

Those are very serious charges. Could you give some examples? I’ve never heard this–though my Hispanic Oneness friend does have a fairly sympathetic attitude to Latino folk religion.
I am not surprised at your friends sympathy to folk religion. I saw plenty of it in the upc. “Saints” routinely testified in Church, to the conversations they had with the Dead. And the warnings and relevance of Dreams were held in High regard. particularly if they came from one of the “Prophets.” During “worship” people went into trance and all kinds of craziness ensued. Redolent of classic spiritualism

I don’t like this, and it certainly doesn’t go down well in modern culture. But it certainly has plenty of precedent in the early Church. I can tell you Me and my Family (Particularly my poor Mom) suffered in ways you cannot begin to fathom.

Edwin
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I am a former member of this sect. When I left, I had limited knowledge of the great heresies, so my reason for departure was for other reasons. Primarily, their legalism was my chief problem. There were rigid rules regarding dress, length of women’s hair, and that members were chastised for any deviation fom obedience to these outward rules of everyday life. I also disagrreed with their exclusionary belief that denominations and individuals who did not agree with them were “not Christians” and going to Hell. For example, when an interfaith group had a march in our town for Life, the local UPC church would not participate even though they also reject abortion. The reason they gave was that people in any other denomination were not real Christians, and that we were “not to be linked together with unbelievers.” I also could not accept their claim to be Apostolic and the only group to have kept the real teachings of Jesus and the Apostles. I am now a Catholic, (Maroninte) and am blessed with the unbroken line with Jesus and the Apostles. Another reason that I left was their belief that one must have the baptism in the holy spirit with evidence of speaking in tongues in order to be saved. I have known many Christians whose holy and righteous lives show that they are truly full of the Holy Spirit without ever having spoken in tongues. There is more, but this is the focus of my disillusionment with this group.
 
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