Anyone know about 4-H?

[SonCatcher]

I was in scouts when I was young. However, the recent decade+ of ideological decline in that once great institution indicate the scouts are not as safe for bringing up the next generation of Catholics as in generations past. (Mormons have abandoned the scouts entirely)

My family were recently invited to visit a 4-H meeting. It seems nice, if less regimented than the Scouts were. It seems to have more of an agricultural and craft focus while having less of the activity (camping/hiking) from scouting.

I am curious whether there are any concerning ideologies associated with 4-H to be aware of. (such as, but not limited to, are there masonic influences)

Thanks in advance!

 

[7_Sorrows]

I was in 4-H back in the 1960’s. I enoyed it. I showed my horse and did sewing projects for 4-H. I can’t
remember if we did any baking for the state fair, but
I enjoyed it.

 

[otjm]

Depends on how well you like shoveling behind the animals. 4H kids seem to be on average solid, no-nonsense kids; part of that is likely the discipline of caring for an animal (pig, goat, sheep, cow, rabbits, chickens) as they take a lot more work than play. And farm families seem to have their heads tied on a lot tighter than some suburban and city folks I know.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

The only negative thing I’ve heard about 4-H is that in many cases it forces the kids to release their meat animal for slaughter after judging at the fair. (Cats, dogs, pocket pets and horses are exceptions.) In some cases, no buyer is allowed to take the animal home live, it must be slaughtered. I realize the point is to get kids in the habit of raising animals for meat production and train them not to be overly attached to the animal, but it can be hard on the kid and it takes away the ability to have a choice. If a kid is not planning to be a farmer I’m also not sure if that kind of experience of “saying goodbye to your animal” is really necessary to have.

If I were involved I’d likely pick an activity that didn’t involve meat animal slaughtering.

 

[blackforest]

We’re a proud Scout family and very active in our parish troop. That said, my daughter was involved in 4-H and loved it. She only left because she wanted to work with animals elsewhere and was getting too busy.

You don’t have to worry about “ideological decline” in either organization. The Mormons left the Scouts because they started accepting girls. Whether or not you personally agree with that move, it’s not against Catholic teaching.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

There are a lot of things a kid can do in 4-H without needing to participate in the meat animal part of it. I suspect the kids who do participate in that likely come from farming families engaged in raising animals for meat production and they do it because their families and friends have participated in the past or encourage the participation.

However, if it’s a case of somebody just looking for an activity for their child that isn’t Scouts, and the family isn’t running a sheep farm or whatever, I’d encourage a 4-H STEM program over an agriculture program. 4-H does stuff like robotics now - presumably they had to branch out since a lot fewer people in USA are involved in farming than in the past, and also they can include city kids in the science and engineering type activities.

 

[Peeps]

We have several 4-H clubs in our city that never go near farms. They work on projects like rocketry, electronics, carpentry, home repairs, sewing (boys and girls!), cooking (boys and girls!), art (not just crafts), music, veterinary science, climate change, environmental issues, inner city issues, etc. etc. etc.

4-H is all about developing interests, not farming.

I think that in any children’s organization, including Religious Education in the Catholic Church, parents have to be watchful of the leaders. Someone with a anti-God, anti-family agenda can be a leader in your local organization. If they can keep it out of the children’s activities, fine. But it often comes across anyway and confuses children.

Sadly, someone who is a predator or has some other mental/psychological pathology can be in charge. Many “safety” organizations have sprung up to try to screen for this, and many safeguards have been established to supposedly protect children. I am a skeptic, and believe that many of these safeguards hobble organizations, especially sports, to the point where the organization can no longer accomplish its mission. But I think most people think it’s better to be hyper safe than to take any chances.

There are people who have a political agenda who become leaders in children’s organizations so that they can impart their “wisdom” to impressionable kids.

And there are well-meaning people who nevertheless undermine parental authority.

So just be observant and wise. Get involved yourself if there is an option, not necessarily directly working with your children, but perhaps in the organization or Executive Board, or as a regular volunteer for fundraising. If you recognize that a leader is not leading your children in the way that you prefer them to be led, then act. Get your kid out and find another chapter, or join another organization, or start your own!

 

[Tis_Bearself]

4-H is all about developing interests, not farming.

4-H has its roots in agriculture programs and is still known for its agriculture programs.

I noted above that it has branched out into many STEM programs that do not involve farming, but for you to claim it’s “not about farming” is incorrect given that 4-H continues to be hugely present at the county and state fairs. In many areas of USA it’s still primarily known as a farming organization. I think it’s only started to make inroads into non-agriculture areas after the Scouts started to lose steam due to all the various objections over gay scout leaders, Planned Parenthood, admitting girls into the Boy Scouts, etc. People started looking for other organizations for their kids to join.

It’s also important for people to realize that 4-H is involved in these agriculture activities because, as shown by a number of the recent threads on the forum, there are people who are ideologically opposed to certain treatment of animals and they may not want to support an organization that promotes it or have their kids involved with such an organization, even if the kid is participating in a computer program and never goes near a cow.

 

[blackforest]

4-H is all about developing interests, not farming.

Exactly.

I love that 4-H is preserving and even reviving all of those lost arts like gardening and canning.

Sadly, someone who is a predator or has some other mental/psychological pathology can be in charge.

One thing I’m noticing is that whenever a sex abuse scandal surfaces in a major organization, most of the cases are from 30-40 years ago, when it was a lot harder for people to speak openly about these matters. For those few kids who could get over the shame of coming forward, there were also the responses to deal with. (“How dare you say that about him? He’s a dear friend of the family!”)

I’m not saying it’s impossible today - far from it! - but there’s more of a culture that is both hyper-vigilant and supportive of kids coming forward.

I may get the Bad Mommy Award for saying this, but I kind of miss just dropping my kid off at 4-H meetings. The Scouts are now requiring parental presence at every meeting. I have no life.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

Yup, the news carried the Scouts bankruptcy story yesterday.

 

[otjm]

Head
Heart
Hands
Health

Though certainly not restricted to farm kids, it does appear at the State Fair that the animals raised in 4-H are raised by farm kids - and likely they already are aware that cows, pigs, sheep, goats and chickens are raised for meat. I would not be surprised to find a child attached to an animal they raised; but I would also suspect that could occur on a farm where 4-H was nowhere to be found. And I suspect that any child who is strongly attached might be less than highly likely to in turn become a farmer raising meat animals. That might be a very good lesson of life.

I also am old enough to remember Old Yeller, and how the boy had to dispatch the dog after the dog contracted rabies. He cried, and he had company… and it was about learning that life has hard lessons.

I am not suggesting that kids should be forced into raising meat animals. Neither do I suggest they should be in cotton batting, protected from learning some of life’s lessons.

 

[CoffeeCatholic]

I am curious whether there are any concerning ideologies associated with 4-H to be aware of. (such as, but not limited to, are there masonic influences)

You could choose to do crafts or service projects that might be related to your own individual church, but no - the only ‘influence’ I was ever aware of is farming! LOL. Which is a great influence but even that was only if you chose to take part in the agricultural part of 4H. Even if you don’t live on a farm (I didn’t), and don’t have anything to do with the animals or barns, 4H is great. Lots of woodworking, crafts, sewing, baking, photography, life skills, etc. The meetings always involve presentations, learning, skills, as well as fun things like crafts, songs and snacks.

If you’ve walked through the 4H building at your local fair you can see all the projects, crafts, etc. that don’t have to do with the animals - and then of course all the individual animal barns are there, as well as the judging, shows and awards.

 

[Allegra]

Several of my husband’s nieces and nephews have done it and have won prizes and scholarships.

 

[SonCatcher]

You don’t have to worry about “ideological decline” in either organization. The Mormons left the Scouts because they started accepting girls. Whether or not you personally agree with that move, it’s not against Catholic teaching.

Girls have been part of BSA for a long time already via Explorers. I was not referring to that at all. Rather, in other moves they seem to have decided in recent years to allow for unchastity in their leaders and members which goes contrary to my understanding of the Scout Oath. (This differs from the scandals, BTW in that the scandals involve behavior that was disallowed)

 

[SonCatcher]

LOL - well, if that is the worst of it, we should be okay.

We wouldn’t be able to raise large animals and I suspect my kids would be primarily interested in art and STEM, anyway.

Thanks, everyone for your (name removed by moderator)ut. It has been most reassuring.