Anyone know of solid Franciscans--no leanings to the left included?

[foolishmortal]

I have heard mixed things about EWTN lately with Mother Angelica not in charge. Sometimes I wonder about Fr. Groeschel and JMTalbot’s friaries as well.

Wearing the habits and sticking to the rule are 2 conditions out of 4 I can remember. Our FSSP priest didn’t have Latin as a necessity, but I would hope an active respect for tradition would be practiced there and some devotions done in Latin–like the EWTN friars.

Thanks!

 

[chotock]

I guess I am not understanding your post here. What are you terming left here? Fransiscans have always been called leftist because of their devotion to the forgotten and discarded. If you are talking about orthodoxy in teaching, that is rather subjective to a point.

The Friars of the Renewal are fairly rigid in their orthodoxy, as the TOR have been in recent times. Capuchins are hit and miss, and the S.A., well you would have to speak with them.

Your best bet is to speak with a vocations director and ask him specific questions. Otherwise you are going off second or third hand knowledge.

 

[whosebob]

The Friars of the Renewal are fairly rigid in their orthodoxy, as the TOR have been in recent times. Capuchins are hit and miss, and the S.A., well you would have to speak with them.

JMJ + OBT​

The Friars of the Renewal (CFR) are wholly orthodox (little “o”); I visited them in early 2004, and was impressed with their triple commitment to serving the poor, living the evangelical counsels and their implementation of the Franciscan rule, and believing the Catholic Faith in its entirety. Call up their vocations director in the USA, Fr. Luke Mary Fletcher – he’ll give you straight orthodox Catholicism and vocational direction, with no “olive, ice, shaking, nor stirring.”

By the way, the Friars of the Renewal are the “Caphuchin” Friars of the Renewal (hence the “C” in “CFR”), they are not Third Order Franciscans.

In the Hearts of Jesus and Mary.

IC XC NIKA

 

[puzzleannie]

I have heard mixed things about . . .Thanks!

what you heard from unattributed undocumented sources is absolutely meaningless and totally unreliable for makeing any kind of judgement. Do you have some kind of source for allegations about any of the persons mentioned in OP? If not, what is your purpose for casting aspersions?

 

[puzzleannie]

I guess I am not understanding your post here. What are you terming left here? Fransiscans have always been called leftist because of their devotion to the forgotten and discarded. If you are talking about orthodoxy in teaching, that is rather subjective to a point.
.

when and where any by whom have “Franciscans always been called leftists.” Leftist is a political term, and Franciscans and other religious orders have historically been non-politically, and their type of activism is rooted in the Gospel, not in the dialectic. Please folks lets be careful about flinging terms around and making rabid generalizations about large groups of people within and without the Church that simply cannot be substantiated on the basis of history. Because some religious orders, (or rather, some convents or monasteries that are members of large religious orders) in modern times have strayed from orthodoxy in teaching and practice gives no one the right to make a general statement couched as fact about the entire order over history.

 

[leonie]

Franciscan Friars of the Immaculate

franciscanseast.org/

 

[WanderAimlessly]

I am not sure of them as a whole, but the 2 OFM priests at my current parish are very orthodox in their teachings. They also follow the GIRM very closely. The are out of the Province headquartered in Cincinnati

 

[chotock]

when and where any by whom have “Franciscans always been called leftists.” Leftist is a political term, and Franciscans and other religious orders have historically been non-politically, and their type of activism is rooted in the Gospel, not in the dialectic. Please folks lets be careful about flinging terms around and making rabid generalizations about large groups of people within and without the Church that simply cannot be substantiated on the basis of history. Because some religious orders, (or rather, some convents or monasteries that are members of large religious orders) in modern times have strayed from orthodoxy in teaching and practice gives no one the right to make a general statement couched as fact about the entire order over history.

Funny how you answered yourself. I never said they were leftist, not once, what I said was that they are called leftist, and have been called worse over their existence.

Francis and his followers broke the mold, they broke out of the commonly accepted forms of preaching and evangelizing. Whenever anyone challenges the “norm” they are called all sorts of names and termed leftist or freaks.

The fact that our OP had heard wind that the CFR are not orthodox proves what I am saying. People will talk and talk about anything that does not fit perfectly into their little worldview, sometimes you have to go do the leg work yourself.

The OP expressed concerns over some thingsa he had heard, nothing more, no accusations. The very fact he had the tenacity to ask shows that he is open to the truth.

Foolish, I will keep praying for your discerment, and ask that you pray for mine as well. God Bless

 

[puzzleannie]

I guess I am not understanding your post here. What are you terming left here? Fransiscans have always been called leftist because of their devotion to the forgotten and discarded. If e.

I quoted this poster who used the term leftist.

OP made derogatory comments about certain EWTN personalities without attribution, source, or credibility.“What I heard” is not worthy of rebuttal or comment. Cite a source, or there is no basis for discussion here.

 

[puzzleannie]

Francis and his followers broke the mold, they broke out of the commonly accepted forms of preaching and evangelizing. Whenever anyone challenges the “norm” they are called all sorts of names and termed leftist or freaks.

the terms leftist and freaks were probably not in common usage in Francis’ day. I have no doubt they were criticized for their actions and method of preaching the gospel, but to use that terminology is anachronistic. Besides I believe OP was asking questions about Franciscans today.

The fact that anyone would react to “something I heard” without stating where I heard, how credible the comments were does not denote open-mindedness, in my opinion.

 

[chotock]

Annie, you are reading way too much into this. The OP is only asking for guidence, stop being so defensive.

 

[foolishmortal]

I think those who would vote Democrat would likely be interested in the same ideology in their church or vice versa. Fr. Groeschel talks of a Big Bang and I think a non-6 day creation of the Earth like it’s as good as gold. He is the same one who says “I don’t know. I wasn’t there” to some questions.
This concerns me about him and his order. God can do anything. The Bible’s account makes no scientific sense, it would seem. Who cares? Towers of fire in Exodus make no sense either; neither do weeping statues of Mary–but they happened. I stick with the Bible unless the Church teaches infallibly otherwise–sorry.

Maybe his understanding isn’t heretical. I can’t remember. That is why one could be left-leaning. EWTN says there is no left or right but orthodox-Catholic or heretic. That, I try to prove here, leaves out a middle ground. I don’t know enough about the cardinal in L.A. but I’d say, if not heretical, is, to use the best term left, a leftist or left-leaning. One who says “No salvation outside the church” could be right-leaning, but not be a heretic, if intended as a general term necessary for use amongst the masses who don’t know nor ever could know enough to know mitigating circumstances whereby a non-Catholic could be saved or whether it applies to particular individuals.

Labels (like right or left-leaning) can be boxing people into stereotypes, but that beats associating all dissenters from non infallible teachings with cafeteria Catholics, heretics, schismatics, etc. I heard of a priest who had a spiritual directee meditate on a hockey puck. That doesn’t make him a heretic or cafeteria Catholic, but probably a questionable spiritual director.

BTW Who’se to say my source didn’t hear what he heard. He read from a book. That book could be reliable or not. Maybe Whosebob based his observations of orthodoxy of the friars on inadequate understanding of orthodox teaching. If I didn’t know him; how could I tell? It’s just something to keep an eye out for. Some things I’ve heard on EWTN make me glad I know what I know. Are they too suspect because it doesn’t sound right to someone (who may never have heard of their reputation) about someone or institution they felt was right on? It’s just info. to consider.

The station and some of its hosts have a loyal following and it’s easy to think they can’t go wrong. We have a Catechism from the Vatican. We have the one from the Council of Trent. We need to discern. However, the classics are pretty much reliable even though St. Thomas Aquinas made some mistakes such as when the soul enters the body. Others didn’t think certain Bible books were inspired.

God give us knowledge of our vocations and the drive to find ourselves in it.

 

[chotock]

In fundamental/literalist teaching God created heaven and earth in 6 24 hour days, the Church does not believe this is necessarily true. You may want to read up a little about how the Church interprets scripture in light of modern science. Big Bang would also follow this as, well, what do you think it would have been like when God brought everyting into existence out of nothing?

When we decide if something is orthodox or heretical, we can’t rely just on our own personal like or distaste. When in doubt look to the Catechism, Council documents, Scripture or even write to Rome.

As I have worked through my discernment I have learned one huge lesson. Stop looking for you want, and start looking for what God wants. I never once in a million years would have thought I would be entertaining a monastic vocation, much less a Trappist one.

 

[chicago]

If you’re looking for the perfect community where everyone will be exactly on the same page (with no “right” or “left” leanings) and everything will be entirely “orthodox and faithful” (at least to your own understandings), then you probably aren’t going to find it. Even if you did, once you enter, it would definitely be spoiled. Why? Because we are human beings with human interests and individual perspectives. So you’re going to run into this in whatever community you choose.

 

[mdgspencer]

This discussion is getting off the track.
You could always consider to order that runs the Franciscan University of Steubenville. I believe that they are a third order Franciscan order. If you knew about this university, I am sure you would give high marks to those who run it.

 

[whosebob]

BTW Who’se to say my source didn’t hear what he heard. He read from a book. That book could be reliable or not. Maybe Whosebob based his observations of orthodoxy of the friars on inadequate understanding of orthodox teaching. If I didn’t know him; how could I tell? It’s just something to keep an eye out for.

JMJ + OBT​

Foolishmortal, I will keep you in my prayers as you discern God’s call, and I am quite sympathetic to your concerns about orthodoxy. That was a major concern for me as I began to discern a call to religious life and to search out a community with and in which to pray and work.

My personal “understanding of orthodox teaching” is based on what I’ve read, watched, and heard, and on my communication with Our Lord in prayer (particularly in the presence of the Blessed Sacrament); my principal printed sources are the Holy Bible (my preferred translation is the RSV-CE), the Catechism of the Catholic Church, the Roman Catechism, the 1913 Catholic Encyclopedia, books from TAN, books from Ignatius Press, books from Scepter Publishers and the Midwest Theological Forum (both connected to Opus Dei), books by the late Fr. John Hardon, S.J., reprints of the 1962 (or older) Roman Missal, a Latin-English edition of the modern Roman Rite, the modern Divine Office, a reprint of a 1950s English-translation of Denzinger, the most recent English language edition of the text known as “Neuner-Dupuis” (watch out for problematic commentary in that one!), The Liturgical Year series by the late Dom Gueranger (re-print by Loreto Publications), and two shelves full of out-of-print books which were recommended to me by orthodox Catholic priests and laity, e.g. an early 20th Century English-translation of the famous Practice of Perfection and the Christian Virtues by the late Alphonsus Rodriguez, S.J. (first published in the the early 17th Century). I watch EWTN, but not as much as I used to (not enough hours in the day), and I also listen to EWTN Radio and other materials from St. Joseph Communications, Catholic Answers, etc.

Again, concerning the CFRs, the best way to check into them would be (1) to call up their vocations director, Fr. Luke Mary Fletcher – just tell him your concerns, but be prepared to listen carefully to his response; (2) go visit them for a few days, though 1 week+ would be best to really get a feel for who they are and to what they’re committed.

May Our Lord bless you and keep you.

In the Hearts of Jesus and Mary.

IC XC NIKA

P.S. I am hoping to become an aspirant with the Missionaries of the Poor as soon as it becomes possible for me to do so. I lived, prayed, and worked with them in Jamaica for over 2 months in the Summer of '05, and in January '06 made up my mind to definitively pursue a vocation as an MOP Brother (perhaps one day a priest). The MOP are not Franciscan, but you might want to take a look at their website and at the following video-clips on YouTube: Called By God, Unto The Least. (Somebody uploaded those clips last month, and I learned of them through two posts made by another user in this Vocations forum.) Please pray for me that I can continue to move forward along the path that will enable me, hopefully soon, to realize God’s call for me to enter religious life.

 

[whosebob]

JMJ + OBT​

I forgot in my previous post to ask you if you had looked into the resources provided by the website of the Institute on Religious Life (IRL). The IRL is dedicated to promoting only those communities that are orthodox in terms of their faithfulness to all of the teachings of the Catholic Church and also in terms of their faithfulness to living according to their rules and constitution. Especially take a look at the IRL’s VocationSearch directory.

In the Hearts of Jesus and Mary.

IC XC NIKA

 

[foolishmortal]

Thanks! I am an infofreak. I should pray more. I get pulled into sinful situations by more liberal friends, family and acquaintances who act repulsed. I know that should happen, but I’m shy and don’t have acquaintances with those who believe the orthodox teachings of the church. I do have an immature spirituality and I have been reading Fr. DuBay’s book on spiritual direction.

BTW The 6/24hr days is not my opinion. I wasn’t sure till I heard it from a very orthodox source (I don’t consider SSPX or moreso non-indult fringe groups as reliable). Science has not proven the “big bang” and, until it does (if that’s possible), the Bible rules. I believe the “big bang” is an atheist approach to debunking the Bible or they domatized it for that purpose. I don’t believe scientists into embryonic stem cells or other controversial subjects are using the scientific method or else, the journals and newspapers are skipping it.

 

[foolishmortal]

Thanks! I am an infofreak. I should pray more. I get pulled into sinful situations by more liberal friends, family and acquaintances who act repulsed. I know that should happen, but I’m shy and don’t have acquaintances with those who believe the orthodox teachings of the church. I do have an immature spirituality and I have been reading Fr. DuBay’s book on spiritual direction.

BTW The 6/24hr days is not my opinion. I wasn’t sure till I heard it from a very orthodox source (I don’t consider SSPX or moreso non-indult fringe groups as reliable). Science has not proven the “big bang” and, until it does (if that’s possible), the Bible rules. I believe the “big bang” is an atheist approach to debunking the Bible or they domatized it for that purpose. I don’t believe scientists into embryonic stem cells or for other controversial subjects not proven are using the scientific method or else, the journals and newspapers are skipping it.

 

[gmarie21]

Capuchins are hit and miss.

I would agree. As a former volunteer with the Capuchins (I won’t disclose the province) I have met many Capuchin priests who did not recite the Creed during Sunday mass (or any mass for that fact). We had a woman dressed in a white robe bless our Bibles before beginning our volunteer year. Many of the Capuchins I worked with were very open in their view that women should be priests and their approval of homosexual relationships being okay. Not to mention all the food they had laying around, there was no simplicity when it came to food. Also they would allow non-Catholics (who they knew were not Catholic) receive the Eucharist.