Anyone tried evangelising in debating other evangelists?

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Kouyate42

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This is something that I’ve myself tried and it seems to work far better than I’d hoped.

Around my area, there’s a number of strongly anti-Catholic and to be fair, completely fundamentalist, Christian preachers in my area. They often situate themselves in the city centre, right outside the major shopping mall, and proceed to shout over large PA systems that being Islamic/Catholic/whatever isn’t going to save you and that their particular church has all the answers. There’s usually lots of posters of Bible quotes, and people handing out literature.

Has anyone actually tried challenging these guys and actually publicly debating them? I must admit that I have on two occasions, and both were spouting the usual anti-Catholic rubbish which made me challenge them because it angered me so much they were saying such things.
 
Honestly I tend to avoid people like that. They tend to be very stubborn and set in their ways and any real challenge you give to what they believe falls on deaf ears. And then if you’re me you just get angry and loose your temper which is never good.

What kind of responses have you gotten to challenging such people? I’m quite interested to hear, I’ve never heard of anyone actually trying such a thing.
 
I have on several occasions, both as a Muslim and a Christian.

In the former case, my debate partners (more accurately, co-arguers) were Christians of the Protestant persuasion, and, to a man, ended up stomping away red-faced. I’ll tell you honestly that not one of the people had a decent apologetic: they were all fideists and, if the metaphor of cleanliness and Godliness holds, fideism is next to Satanism in my eye. Life and belief are about thought and conviction through reason, not through blind faith, which is idiocy. If someone can prove you wrong and you still believe, it’s blind faith.

All of them used the same, tired tactics: “see how Jesus has changed lives! see the Holy Spirit in action! it’s about faith! have a personal relationship with Jesus! enter in to a dialectical relationship with God!”: I didn’t care how Jesus has changed lives, I didn’t believe in the Holy Spirit; I never heard a real, live proponent with an apologetic of the type as, “this is how we know God exists; this is why the scriptures are reliable; this is the evidence for the resurrection; here are the prophecies; here is the textual evidence”, etc., which is the kind of evidence - especially of the philosophical and Thomistic varieties - that eventually brought me around and gave me conviction instead of going-through-the-motions.

Eventually one Protestant told me to “read the New Testament, and come back, and I’ll become a Muslim”, issued as a challenge - as if I couldn’t deal with it. It’s just a book. I took him up on the challenge to prove him wrong. I did read it with as open a mind as I could muster (“the book’s been corrupted and is obviously false, it has no power!”) but with Islamic and atheistical preconceptions. I had read the Old Testament in a Jewish translation (the NJPS) because I couldn’t stand the Christological interpretations of Christian Bibles. That day, I bought the cheapest Bible I could find (a plastic-covered text edition of the NRSV) and began reading at Matthew: if I remember, “This is the book of the generations of Jesus the Messiah, child of David, child of Abraham” - I was intrigued, given that Islam places so much emphasis on Abraham (more than anyone but Muhammad) and view David as a prophet who was given the Zabur (Psalms) as scripture.

Needless to say, he didn’t become a Muslim.

I never really believed in God, not even after that point, but I recognized the Jesus of the Gospels as something a human could never be, and, even if he was invented by the apostles, something a human could and would never dream up; they would write of a failed and noble king, much like Muhammad (except he was a successful king), not a person who preached values so disconsonant with our most basic instincts and beliefs. Because of the dissonance with human nature, it seemed impossible for a man to even have conceived such ideas, let alone have put them in the mouth of someone else, as everyone would have thought, “this character is obviously fictional”.

I read it. And I read it again. I read the Christian Old Testament, which, even in the poor NRSV translation, which mutes Christological prophecy and interpretation, and found myself more drawn to the opinion that it prefigured Jesus.

I read more about Christianity, and ended up reading the Summa Theologiae of St Thomas Aquinas, which was of ultimate importance in my conversion, and a few Papal encyclicals (namely, Fides et Ratio, which was of penultimate importance in my accepting the Catholic faith, given that it has an intellectual rigour not found elsewhere). I read a whole host of other apologetics books, Catholic and Protestant, from The New Evidence to Reasonable Faith and historical-critical commentaries to learn text criticism, variant readings, provenance, chains of transmission, etc. and found an intellectual openness and honesty completely absent from Islam; a dogmatics based on reason, instead of a reason based on dogmatics.

After Fides et Ratio and the Quinquae viae of Aquinas, I for the first time actually believed in a God.

Soon after, I reverted to my native faith, Eastern Orthodoxy, which I converted from as a young teenager due to a confluence of factors, with which he was none too pleased (being a “bible-believing evangelical”) but found much better than Mohammedanism (as do I; I use the word not as a slur but as a descriptor, since Muhammad thought it up in his imagination, it can have no truly objective reality).

The (unfinished: I’ve yet to be confirmed due to lack of transportation) journey from Orthodoxy to Catholicism is too long to fit in this post, and full of more theological technicalities.

As a Christian, I have debated Muslims, which always ends in being asked in a it’s-not-a-question-way, “You’re a paid operative of the Jews or Zionists, right?”, or “How much are they paying you?”. I’ve also debated with Protestants of an evangelical but more kindly-natured persuasion, and have yet to gain a convert to the Church, but have rebutted all arguments successfully, ending once in a pensive “I’ll have to get back to you on that” and once “The Devil is trying to snare us, the Whore of Babylon isn’t to be trusted” rhetoric.
 
Maybe a lesson or two can be drawn from the debates, at least.


  1. *]A rational apologetic based on both empirical evidence and philosophical proof is needed to convince a certain type of person, or at least pull him away from his previous tradition, even if he is only lukewarm in it, and give him intellectual warrant to believe.

    *]Fideism is kind of like a plague on Christianity, and is far too wide-spread. Belief shouldn’t end at, “it’s a matter of faith”. It must have warrant. This fideism has caused the average, slightly intellectual American to dismiss Christianity as an intellectually non-viable superstition, because he’s been raised in an environment of fideism, scientism and a mechanistic philosophy, which he realizes is incompatible with the Christian God. That leaves four classes of people:

    1. *]Idiots, who stick with whatever religion they were born with out of “blind faith”
      *]Quasi-intellectuals who realize enough to know the mechanistic philosophy they are immersed in is a defeater for theism, and become atheists or agnostics (this is really a sub-class of [1], as they discard their received religion while keeping their received philosophical worldview)
      *]Those who question both their religion and philosophy and conclude with Aristotelian metaphysics, and that God must exist if Aristotelian metaphysics is true: indeed, the only philosophical worldview under which theism is both defensible, incontrovertible and necessary is Realism, or Essentialism, or Real Essentialism (Aristotelian realism, etc.); these will end up Catholic, or Orthodox
      *]Those who view truth as relational, subjective, dialectical, etc. and can convince themselves of anything (I was one of these for a long time).

      *]Whichever side of the debate I was on, I “won”, if that word has meaning; I outlasted and outargued my opponent, and eventually got to a point where no rebuttals were left; this says that the outcome of a debate has less to do with objective truth than the skill of the rhetorician.
 
Honestly I tend to avoid people like that. They tend to be very stubborn and set in their ways and any real challenge you give to what they believe falls on deaf ears. And then if you’re me you just get angry and loose your temper which is never good.

What kind of responses have you gotten to challenging such people? I’m quite interested to hear, I’ve never heard of anyone actually trying such a thing.
My major problem isn’t the evangelist themselves, but I’ve come across people in my church who believe the whole ‘Islam is a moon god religion’ (if it were as simple as this!) or ‘Catholics worship Mary more than Jesus’ or ‘‘evolution is a lie’’ arguments without any (name removed by moderator)ut into the actual facts.

I’ve actually had some pretty positive responses to my challenges, from the crowd listening. Hey, I even got a round of applause one time! 😃
 
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