Apathy

[Awake]

Just to let you know that you are no different to others in that you might listen or try to but that is not the point. God’s ways are not ours or His timing, or place for you to hear Him.
I found that after an accident at 11yrs of age i knew that God had called me by giving my life back to me.
I heard a voice tell me to fill in a hole I had made at home and I knew that it was God.
I offered my life to Him in which ever form He desired. And yet it was not until 21yrs of age that I ended up getting married, five children and God reveled to me His giving me what I had asked for.
I told God that there was more to life than I was getting from mass I needed more much more and I prayed and it was not until 7 years latter that I found it in the Holy Spirit and once heard God speak to me plainly, as plain as you and I.
I asked Him questions and expected to hear Him speak and He did and still does.
The point is I never gave up and will not, but I don’t hear as much as before but in times of need or His desire i hear very clearly. I fell in love with Him and that is how and why I speak to Him.
It seems that it is the relationship first.

Godbless

Thanks. I hope one day I’ll feel this way.

 

[littleone]

Thanks. I hope one day I’ll feel this way.

You are most welcome, and I hope and pray that you will be filled with the love and joy of God that you want and will love. May God bless you to overflowing.
Godbless

 

[Sheeniac]

Hi Awake,

A few random comments…

Does God talk to me? Not really - a little bit through intermediaries when I finally came home after being an atheist between the ages of 15 and 40 (25 LONG years). But instead, I listen to the Gospel at Mass and hear God’s words.

I think you might want to lower your expectations. Mass is for worship. Prayer is not only for “discussion” with God. To be honest, nearly all of my prayer is intercession for others. I don’t expect God to answer me.

HelenaMT makes some good points. Yes, focus on doing. Jesus said to love others as you love yourself. Bu focusing on others, and on love, you are living then as God wants you to. BTW - service need not be big - it can be the “little way” - small things for others.

Jesus also said that our Father would give whatever you asked for that you need. Perhaps you can start work asking for help with some of the virtues - focus on making yourself more the way God wants you to be.

Another angle - by wanting to get to know God, to have Him speak to you / give you a sign, are you not also testing God? And from what the Bible says, God doesn’t like being tested. It also says that God’s voice is like a soft whisper of wind. (kinda - I can’t really remember the phrasing…)

You mention theology… sounds like it could be lifeless. Yes, I suppose I read theology, but I read what reaches my heart. Archbishop Sheen’s show on EWTN (from the 50s and 60s) helped me come home. I’ve read a lot of his writings, and also a lot of the pre-V2 writings. Not because it’s “purer”, but rather much of the writing from that time is written in a different style. I’ve found my faith deepen through my readings. So does your reading inspire you? Reach you? Make you put your book down and think? If not, time to start reading some different things.

Finally, if you relate to Christ as a man / historical figure, I’m afraid that you may never really know God. Part of my intellectual conversion was reading the Case for Christ. It persuaded me that the divinity of Christ was true.

May God’s peace be with you.

 

[Awake]

Awake,

However hard you are finding this, I sense that you just keep persevering. As someone who falls to pieces when I cease to “feel” God, I think your perseverence is admirable. Some people have criticised your responses, but the way you are responding to your trials is between you and God and it’s not for us to judge you.

I am pretty sure that there are others out there who feel the same way. I felt very alone in my feelings toward God for many years, until I found one or two people on the internet who I could share things with. Be assured that you are not alone. One thing which convinces me of the truth of Catholicism is that God calls people of all personalities from all walks of life, not just the very emotional/affective types.

But that aside, maybe you need to learn to forgive yourself for your apathy. You might find that the apathy is not distancing you from God, but rather that your weakness is drawing you closer to Him. In humility, recognise that you are nothing without Him. God bless you for your efforts so far.

If you’d asked me for recommendations for very “emotional” Catholics I could have given you a long list from personal experience. But, I’d like to venture to recommend a text that might help you, though I apologise if I have failed to understand your perspective. Try reading St. John of the Cross’ “Dark Night of the Soul”. I read this, and I have to admit I still have difficulty fully understanding it (which is why I think perhaps it would speak better to someone of an opposite temprament), but it seems to speak to those times when everything seems “dry”. I think it might help you to accept the trials you are experiencing. St. Teresa, in The Interior Castle, warned against striving after graces and consolations. It is SO hard, I acknowledge, but it is a good thing to accept this. Also, maybe some of the passages in the “Imitation of Christ” which refer to feeling deprived of the consolation of God might help you. You can find most of these books online if you don’t want to wait to buy them.

If this is of little help to you, I’m sorry. Be assured of my prayers, anyway.

Sian x

Sian, thanks for the reply. I have read Imitation of Christ and am familiar with Dark Night of the Soul, but haven’t read it. From my understanding, a dark night of the soul is something that happens to people who are very advanced in their spirituality. I don’t think that would apply to me.

That is true what you say about more people being Catholic than just emotional people. I think I know what you’re saying. I’m generally a reserved person (contrary to how I might present myself in this thread), and am very quiet, contemplative, logical, and realistic. I would rather meet with St. Thomas Aquinas than I would any of the mystics. I would definitely prefer a solemn mass than a charismatic mass. I would rather read a hymn than sing it. I think people with my personality generally tend to have a harder time finding God for whatever reason.

In humility, recognise that you are nothing without Him.

I try to have this attitude, but it’s very difficult. It’s hard to be humble to God when you don’t know him, and aren’t even sure he exists.

 

[Awake]

Hi Awake,

A few random comments…

Does God talk to me? Not really - a little bit through intermediaries when I finally came home after being an atheist between the ages of 15 and 40 (25 LONG years). But instead, I listen to the Gospel at Mass and hear God’s words.

I think you might want to lower your expectations. Mass is for worship. Prayer is not only for “discussion” with God. To be honest, nearly all of my prayer is intercession for others. I don’t expect God to answer me.

So what exactly should I be expecting from God then? Seek and ye shall find, knock and the door shall be opened. What should I actually expect to find?

HelenaMT makes some good points. Yes, focus on doing. Jesus said to love others as you love yourself. Bu focusing on others, and on love, you are living then as God wants you to. BTW - service need not be big - it can be the “little way” - small things for others.

Jesus also said that our Father would give whatever you asked for that you need. Perhaps you can start work asking for help with some of the virtues - focus on making yourself more the way God wants you to be.

Fair enough.

Another angle - by wanting to get to know God, to have Him speak to you / give you a sign, are you not also testing God? And from what the Bible says, God doesn’t like being tested. It also says that God’s voice is like a soft whisper of wind. (kinda - I can’t really remember the phrasing…)

You know, I hear that a lot and to be honest, it sounds like a cop-out. The fate of our eternal soul rests on our relationship with God. Is it not too much to ask that he at least makes himself known to us? I’m not asking for a booming voice from the sky, but if God exists then surely he would know what it would take for me to get to know him.

You mention theology… sounds like it could be lifeless. Yes, I suppose I read theology, but I read what reaches my heart. Archbishop Sheen’s show on EWTN (from the 50s and 60s) helped me come home. I’ve read a lot of his writings, and also a lot of the pre-V2 writings. Not because it’s “purer”, but rather much of the writing from that time is written in a different style. I’ve found my faith deepen through my readings. So does your reading inspire you? Reach you? Make you put your book down and think? If not, time to start reading some different things.

What kind of reading are you referring to? Theological reading? If so, then it doesn’t really inspire me. I used to enjoy theological reading because it made me feel smart, and because I thought that I would eventually get the point where it would all click and I would “get” God.

Finally, if you relate to Christ as a man / historical figure, I’m afraid that you may never really know God. Part of my intellectual conversion was reading the Case for Christ. It persuaded me that the divinity of Christ was true.

May God’s peace be with you.

I’ve never really had a relationship with Christ, so it’s hard to relate to him in any way other than a historical figure.

 

[packermann]

I’m generally a reserved person (contrary to how I might present myself in this thread), and am very quiet, contemplative, logical, and realistic. I would rather meet with St. Thomas Aquinas than I would any of the mystics. I would definitely prefer a solemn mass than a charismatic mass. I would rather read a hymn than sing it. I think people with my personality generally tend to have a harder time finding God for whatever reason.

I think that there can also be non-spiritual reasons why a person does not sense the presense of God. For instance, I noticed that church was starting to be real slow for me. It was hard for me to sit still and pray. The problem for me was very simple - I was drinking too much coffee. I started to cut down on the coffee, and not only did I feel better, but I felt close to God again.

There can be other non-spritual reason why we do not feel close to God - not enough sleep, too much sugar, or just a personality is more head-oriented than heart-oriented.

But whatever reasons, if we still seek God, this would be very pleasing to God, and He will reward us, if not in this life then in the life to come.

 

[Awake]

I think that there can also be non-spiritual reasons why a person does not sense the presense of God. For instance, I noticed that church was starting to be real slow for me. It was hard for me to sit still and pray. The problem for me was very simple - I was drinking too much coffee. I started to cut down on the coffee, and not only did I feel better, but I felt close to God again.

There can be other non-spritual reason why we do not feel close to God - not enough sleep, too much sugar, or just a personality is more head-oriented than heart-oriented.

But whatever reasons, if we still seek God, this would be very pleasing to God, and He will reward us, if not in this life then in the life to come.

I will freely admit I am more head-oriented than heart-oriented. I look at things more in a logical way than in an emotional way.

 

[littleone]

I will freely admit I am more head-oriented than heart-oriented. I look at things more in a logical way than in an emotional way.

I have a friend who tells me that he loves Jesus (God) but every time we relate to God he seems to emphasis humanistic understanding ( thoughts of Jesus through the lens of a person on the world. He calculates God through what God could get from people who should give to Him because after all, Jesus gave to people without wanting.
Jesus healed so therefore they should pay something, Jesus walked the extra mile so why shouldn’t they offer to do something for God?
And the list goes on and on, but do you see what I am saying? This person may not be accurately in line with you but this person is “head orientated”, or logically thinking, or again humanizing, or “of the world”. Jesus tells us to think NOT of the world but to be in the world because we cannot - not be in the world. Our thought patterns have to be God like NOT human like. And how do we do this, well it is to let go of our way of thinking and engross Jesus way, look at the words of St Terese of Cal cutter.

For instance to the one who does not love yo, love them more.
To the one who will not help you help them more.
Seem hard, no it takes letting go of our humanness or thoughts.
God will give a hand to those who try and keep on trying, even though they may falter 1000 times.

Godbless

 

[yesukristus]

Sounds like you need a dose of the Holy Spirit. IMHO, the Holy Spirit turns the head-knowledge of God (theology, abstract reasoning, etc.) into heart-knowledge (personal encounter, hearing His voice, etc.) Have you tried praying to the Holy Spirit?
Try not to worry too much about God’s silence. Remember, Jesus did not call us to be meditating ascetics (a la Buddhism) but active servants. So go out, help people in the name of Jesus, offer up your life to Jesus every day. If your head isn’t bringing you closer to God, trying using some other parts of your body