Apologetic circles

[AshleyBelle]

Hi everyone,

 I don't if I need prayer or encouragement or what right now..maybe both.. But I have some questions for you:(

Do you ever get discouraged defending your faith? Not discouraged as in, less sure of your faith, but discouraged by how distorted people view our church?

I've been participating a lot in the apologetics threads lately, because I've been pretty much curled up on the sofa all week with a cup of tea and the lap top to fend off this nasty bug going around the house.  I've felt uplifted at times, by the affirmations of faith from other Catholics on CAF...but I've also been disheartened, offended, and outright worn out from the constant circular arguing!

Why is there so much hatred against the church? It feels sometimes, like I'm sitting on one side of the computer, and it isn't Christians I'm speaking to, it's the devil himself spouting lie after lie about the Catholic church!

It hurts so much sometimes…to know that these are REAL Christians, real children of God who truly do LOVE Christ… that the devil is using to spread so many lies and so much hatred! I feel like with every anti-catholic post, CHRISTIANS are casting stones right at our Lord Himself!

So I pray, and try to put myself in the line of fire to protect, to DEFEND and stand up for our Lord, but the problem is that I, being little as I am, cannot stand up against the slings as arrows as much as He.

I'm sorry to sound depressed or as if I do not have hope.. I DO have hope.. and I know that no matter what lies are spread, that the Church will never fail... but it hurts so much sometimes, just to witness the battle :(

 

[gookykookypig]

For my part, I was once a protestant lad who with my juvenile tendencies hated the Catholic Church the same degree other protestant youth do. A smirk in my face when I hear the word “catholic” and I’ll be full of bitterness, bitterness to the fact that I cannot reverse history, and even to my most trusted sources they say that the Catholic Church is the first Christian Church.

I questioned myself then “Why did I hate the Catholic Church so much?” In my personal life, I do not hate someone because I hate him. I hate someone for he had done wrong, directly to me or indirectly. And for me, the catholic Church had done wrong. But I later realized that I didn’t hate the church justly. Jesus’ words struck me at John 7:24, it says:

“Judge not according to the appearance,
but judge righteous judgment.”
(John 7:24, KJV)

Jesus advocated justice, yet I do not advocate it as a Christian. So to aim for what Christ had spearheaded, I studied Church history with all its grim events. I must have a balanced and unbiased outlook concerning the Church so that, I can answer evenly to everyone why I hated the catholic Church. I found the answers I’m looking for, with all the scandals, the schisms, the fraud papacy etc. This is the big deal, I said. But I saw not only evil, but good.

What had made a turning point in my life is the presence of the saints with all those events.

I saw the Early Church Fathers in the early persecutions. I saw Charles Borromeo and the Spanish Saints in the Reformation Times. I saw Robert Bellarmine in the controversy of Galileo. I saw Catherine of Siena in the Avignon controversy. I saw Francis of Assisi in the corrupted times. I saw Maximilian Kolbe in Hitler’s regime. Then I realized, with all these great people, they don’t hate the Catholic Church at all. They hate the steadily rising evils, and they didn’t separated but rather helped the body struggle with evil. They know that a severed hand cannot heal the whole ailing body, so they must work inside the vineyard themselves and this echoed what the Bible suggests us:

“Take us the foxes, the little foxes, that spoil
the vines: for our vines have tender grapes.”
(Songs of Songs 2:15)

So there are foxes even in the best vineyards, just as the enemy had sown grass among the wheat. The Catholic Church must be seemingly evil when we talk about its past controversies. However, they aren’t summed up into one era, but they are all scattered in every church age. The rising and falling of evil is a sign of Satan “leaving until the opportune time” and God winning in every circumstances. God designated the *ad hoc *measures for them by appointing an agent for rescue. Then I realized fully, if these people were there for the church, I’m just having trouble hating the Catholic Church, for God Himself knows how to suppress evil and evil will not be permitted to scourge without Him willing it. I converted to the Catholic Church when I was 17 years old.

I am a junior apologist defending the Church through radio and write-ups (blogs, essays etc)by using “common sense”. We don’t need abyssal theology to fight up with the pitted logic of some. We need just common sense, for every soul needs a simple understanding. They must learn that the Church is not defeated but victorious throughout time. It might for a time seem to be weak, like the Christ Child’s hasty departure to Egypt, and the woman given eagle’s wings to flee from the dragon, but with all these “ad hoc measures”, it proves that God steers the wheel of his Church, and he will not let the gates of hell subdue the Church. The gates may scorch the Church but the Church will eventually rise from its ashes and ruins, having the gates of heaven to appoint heroes of faith.

In these modern times, I wish to be one of God’s “ad hoc measures”.

 

[AshleyBelle]

For my part, I was once a protestant lad who with my juvenile tendencies hated the Catholic Church the same degree other protestant youth do. A smirk in my face when I hear the word “catholic” and I’ll be full of bitterness, bitterness to the fact that I cannot reverse history, and even to my most trusted sources they say that the Catholic Church is the first Christian Church.

I questioned myself then “Why did I hate the Catholic Church so much?” In my personal life, I do not hate someone because I hate him. I hate someone for he had done wrong, directly to me or indirectly. And for me, the catholic Church had done wrong. But I later realized that I didn’t hate the church justly. Jesus’ words struck me at John 7:24, it says:

“Judge not according to the appearance,
but judge righteous judgment.”
(John 7:24, KJV)

Jesus advocated justice, yet I do not advocate it as a Christian. So to aim for what Christ had spearheaded, I studied Church history with all its grim events. I must have a balanced and unbiased outlook concerning the Church so that, I can answer evenly to everyone why I hated the catholic Church. I found the answers I’m looking for, with all the scandals, the schisms, the fraud papacy etc. This is the big deal, I said. But I saw not only evil, but good.

What had made a turning point in my life is the presence of the saints with all those events.

I saw the Early Church Fathers in the early persecutions. I saw Charles Borromeo and the Spanish Saints in the Reformation Times. I saw Robert Bellarmine in the controversy of Galileo. I saw Catherine of Siena in the Avignon controversy. I saw Francis of Assisi in the corrupted times. I saw Maximilian Kolbe in Hitler’s regime. Then I realized, with all these great people, they don’t hate the Catholic Church at all. They hate the steadily rising evils, and they didn’t separated but rather helped the body struggle with evil. They know that a severed hand cannot heal the whole ailing body, so they must work inside the vineyard themselves and this echoed what the Bible suggests us:

“Take us the foxes, the little foxes, that spoil
the vines: for our vines have tender grapes.”
(Songs of Songs 2:15)

So there are foxes even in the best vineyards, just as the enemy had sown grass among the wheat. The Catholic Church must be seemingly evil when we talk about its past controversies. However, they aren’t summed up into one era, but they are all scattered in every church age. The rising and falling of evil is a sign of Satan “leaving until the opportune time” and God winning in every circumstances. God designated the *ad hoc *measures for them by appointing an agent for rescue. Then I realized fully, if these people were there for the church, I’m just having trouble hating the Catholic Church, for God Himself knows how to suppress evil and evil will not be permitted to scourge without Him willing it. I converted to the Catholic Church when I was 17 years old.

I am a junior apologist defending the Church through radio and write-ups (blogs, essays etc)by using “common sense”. We don’t need abyssal theology to fight up with the pitted logic of some. We need just common sense, for every soul needs a simple understanding. They must learn that the Church is not defeated but victorious throughout time. It might for a time seem to be weak, like the Christ Child’s hasty departure to Egypt, and the woman given eagle’s wings to flee from the dragon, but with all these “ad hoc measures”, it proves that God steers the wheel of his Church, and he will not let the gates of hell subdue the Church. The gates may scorch the Church but the Church will eventually rise from its ashes and ruins, having the gates of heaven to appoint heroes of faith.

In these modern times, I wish to be one of God’s “ad hoc measures”.

Thank you for this beautiful testimony!
Thank you for the reminder that God can use even the littlest of us as “ad hoc measures”

I pray that somehow I can be used as well, so that those who only know the lies and false hatred towards our Church may see some good and pause to question the source of their hatred.

God bless you!

 

[Angels_Unaware]

Ashley, ironically, I find you very encouraging!

I was reading one of your posts a couple of days ago and thinking how uplifting your efforts are (to me!)

 

[Teflon93]

Yes, but compared to what the Church’s enemies did to Christ the lies and personal attacks are a fragrant breeze.

I reserve my frustration for my inability to conquer my own sinfulness.

If you feel as though the fight in the trenches is getting you down, take a breather and go to Eucharistic adoration. You’ll feel much better.

 

[AshleyBelle]

Ashley, ironically, I find you very encouraging!

I was reading one of your posts a couple of days ago and thinking how uplifting your efforts are (to me!)

You have no idea what it means to me to hear that!  I'm still sort of new to my faith, and always teetering on the edge of "am I going to mis step and present something the wrong way?"  Goodness, there's SO much to the church that I still don't know! Even if it seems like I'm not reaching the posters on CAF who are set against our faith, it helps so much to know that I can at least be used to encourage other catholics with my small understanding :) God bless you!

Yes, but compared to what the Church’s enemies did to Christ the lies and personal attacks are a fragrant breeze.

I reserve my frustration for my inability to conquer my own sinfulness.

If you feel as though the fight in the trenches is getting you down, take a breather and go to Eucharistic adoration. You’ll feel much better.

You’re right! Christ knew what was in store for Him, and He still chose to suffer for us. I will meditate on this tomorrow in the mass! (though I confess, meditation is sometimes difficult with my three little ones getting antsy in the pew! )

   My husband just came home with brownies.
  I think God told him "hey..psssst get your wife brownies tonight!" Because they are helping too:)

 

[gookykookypig]

Remember Saint Therese’ “Little Way”. That little way stormed the heavens. You can do, too, and can spend much of God’s ink to write in his Book of Life.

And oh, those brownies seemed to be “ad hoc measures” to your tummy tonight.

 

[Teflon93]

You’re right! Christ knew what was in store for the Him, and He still chose to suffer for us. I will meditate on this tomorrow in the mass! (though I confess, meditation is sometimes difficult with my three little ones getting antsy in the pew! )

   My husband just came home with brownies.
  I think God told him "hey..psssst get your wife brownies tonight!" Because they are helping too:)

I sympathize with you—we just got back from Mass and our 7-month-old played foley artist throughout making the most mortifying noises whenever things got quiet.

It’s amazing how chocolate takes the sting out of life’s little setbacks, isn’t it? I had to shovel in some Halloween candy myself. At least we know the saints have a sense of humor!

 

[Pax]

AshleyBelle,

Fear not and be strong in the Lord. I always find the following verse a source of strength when I get discouraged:

Matthew 10:24-26
"A disciple is not above his teacher, nor a servant above his master; it is enough for the disciple to be like his teacher, and the servant like his master. If they have called the master of the house Be-elzebul, how much more will they malign those of his household. “So have no fear of them; for nothing is covered that will not be revealed, or hidden that will not be known.”

 

[Gottle_of_Geer]

Hi everyone,

I don’t if I need prayer or encouragement or what right now…maybe both… But I have some questions for you

Do you ever get discouraged defending your faith? Not discouraged as in, less sure of your faith, but discouraged by how distorted people view our church?

I’ve been participating a lot in the apologetics threads lately, because I’ve been pretty much curled up on the sofa all week with a cup of tea and the lap top to fend off this nasty bug going around the house. I’ve felt uplifted at times, by the affirmations of faith from other Catholics on CAF…but I’ve also been disheartened, offended, and outright worn out from the constant circular arguing!

Why is there so much hatred against the church? It feels sometimes, like I’m sitting on one side of the computer, and it isn’t Christians I’m speaking to, it’s the devil himself spouting lie after lie about the Catholic church!

Because it has done some horrible things, that don’t sit well with its very exalted claims. A lot of the hatred is, humanly speaking, no more than it deserves; perhaps less than it deserves. Mercifully, God spares us what we deserve.​

It hurts so much sometimes…to know that these are REAL Christians, real children of God who truly do LOVE Christ… that the devil is using to spread so many lies and so much hatred! I feel like with every anti-catholic post, CHRISTIANS are casting stones right at our Lord Himself!

A lot of the time, they are rebuking the CC for real evils in it; it’s human nature to be defensive when this happens. The Church is not Christ - it has often claimed His Name, when acting against Him That too is human nature. There are lies too, but Protestants are not alone in spreading untruths. Again, that is human nature - human nature is pretty foul. ​

So I pray, and try to put myself in the line of fire to protect, to DEFEND and stand up for our Lord, but the problem is that I, being little as I am, cannot stand up against the slings as arrows as much as He.

I’m sorry to sound depressed or as if I do not have hope… I DO have hope… and I know that no matter what lies are spread, that the Church will never fail… but it hurts so much sometimes, just to witness the battle

 

[zach_dunn]

Hi Ashley!

Your optimistic efforts to help Catholics and non-Catholics alike come closer to the truth is one of the things that helped me decide that I want to become an apologist, I just wanted to thank you.

 

[Henning]

I liked your posts in ‘Prayer of Pope to Mary’ thread over in Non-Catholic religions forum …and I’m not Catholic…

 

[Church_Militant]

Hi everyone,

 I don't if I need prayer or encouragement or what right now..maybe both.. But I have some questions for you:(

Do you ever get discouraged defending your faith? Not discouraged as in, less sure of your faith, but discouraged by how distorted people view our church?

Is His Holiness Benedict XVI a Catholic?

Sure I do! Recently I broke my own rule and joined an n-C/a-C forum and I have all but quit posting there because of the nasty way they are. In the end, I have changed my signature there from 1st Peter 3:15 to Matthew 10:14, though I did have a good exchange of e-mails with the site owner/Admin, so I may just hang in there though without posting for a while.

I’ve been participating a lot in the apologetics threads lately, because I’ve been pretty much curled up on the sofa all week with a cup of tea and the lap top to fend off this nasty bug going around the house. I’ve felt uplifted at times, by the affirmations of faith from other Catholics on CAF…but I’ve also been disheartened, offended, and outright worn out from the constant circular arguing!

Get used to it little sister.It comes with the turf. The most important thing that you can do is follow St. Paul’s mandate to St. Timothy when he tells him. “Carefully study to present thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly handling the word of truth.” (2nd Timothy 2:15)

In knowing why we believe what we believe comes confidence and with that one learns to be objective and to counter every argument with concrete facts and scripture. In laying out objective information in a concise and charitable manner, we allow the Holy Spirit to use that to open hearts to the truth, which is His job, not ours. That’s why the second aspect that is equally important is bathing ourselves in prayer and especially intercession for ourselves and all those we share with.

As a Knight of the Immaculata, my/our constant prayer and consecration to Mary is “so that you may use me for the coming of the Kingdom of Jesus in the whole world.” and we pray St. Maximilian Kolbe’s variant of the Miraculous Medal prayer often which says, “O Mary, conceived without sin, pray for us who have recourse to thee, and for all those who do not have re-course to thee, especially the enemies of Holy Church and all those recommended to thee.”

I also pray the Divine Mercy Chaplet for the conversion of souls. And believe me, I’ve seen some conversions that really made me humbly give all praise and glory to God.

Why is there so much hatred against the church? It feels sometimes, like I’m sitting on one side of the computer, and it isn’t Christians I’m speaking to, it’s the devil himself spouting lie after lie about the Catholic church!

I understand. “The intarweb” as my sons jokingly refer to it, is a very anonymous place where a boatload of information, both accurate and lies, good and bad, hurtles back and forth at a pace that no mere human mortal can even begin to really comprehend, and that’s just its impersonal nature. Some folks who wouldn’t dare say things to a person face to face will let loose with alarming vitriol and polemics against our most holy faith here. (Fortunately, CAF has a staff of Mods and admins who are committed to keeping this place “a community for Catholics and non-Catholics of all levels of interest in and/or commitment to the Catholic Church where they may gather on the Internet for discussion in a safe and charitable environment.” and they help immensely to maintain a level playing field for the discussions and debates to take place. (A & NCR) Apologetics and Non-Catholic Religions are probably the main debate forums and can be pretty rough and tumble, which is why their Mods tend to ride herd on us all when needed. If charity breaks down then the discussion pretty much go right directly to hell, and nothing of good comes of it.

Ashley, you have to also keep in mind that virtually nothing you see on here today has changed in 500 years, since the Reformation. There was rhetoric, polemics, and vitriolic propaganda in 1517 and it will be the same in 2017, but neither have the answers changed.

I think that one of our biggest missions is to simply present those answers without ever stooping into “rhetoric, polemics, and vitriolic propaganda” of our own. It serves the devil best (and Our Lord least!) if we focus on winning an argument or debate and ruin a soul in the process.

(Cont’d)

 

[Church_Militant]

It hurts so much sometimes…to know that these are REAL Christians, real children of God who truly do LOVE Christ… that the devil is using to spread so many lies and so much hatred! I feel like with every anti-catholic post, CHRISTIANS are casting stones right at our Lord Himself!

An apt analogy I suppose, and it’s sad that we cannot simply sit and share the way Our Lord would best have us, but I also think that it’s precisely part of the “zeitgeist” (or spirit of the age) that we live in and that we may be near enough to the return of Christ for the terrible prediction of the New Testament to be coming to pass before our very eyes when it says, “And because wickedness is multiplied, most men’s love will grow cold.” (Matthew 24:12)

All one can do is pray diligently and in all things conform oneself to Our Lord Jesus Christ.

So I pray, and try to put myself in the line of fire to protect, to DEFEND and stand up for our Lord, but the problem is that I, being little as I am, cannot stand up against the slings as arrows as much as He.

Yep, but you can do as St. Paul says of himself, “Who now rejoice in my sufferings for you, and fill up those things that are wanting of the sufferings of Christ, in my flesh, for his body, which is the church:”, and my dear sister that is enough.:hug3:

I’m sorry to sound depressed or as if I do not have hope… I DO have hope… and I know that no matter what lies are spread, that the Church will never fail… but it hurts so much sometimes, just to witness the battle

I know…Again, remember what Our Lord tells us, “17 For the Lamb, which is in the midst of the throne, shall rule them, and shall lead them to the fountains of the waters of life, and God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes.” and again, “4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes: and death shall be no more, nor mourning, nor crying, nor sorrow shall be any more, for the former things are passed away” (Revelation chapters 7 & 21 respectively)

Pax Domini sit semper vobiscum.

 

[AshleyBelle]

Thank you so much for all of your kind words!

God bless!

 

[wisdomseeker]

Hi everyone,

 I don't if I need prayer or encouragement or what right now..maybe both.. But I have some questions for you:(

Do you ever get discouraged defending your faith? Not discouraged as in, less sure of your faith, but discouraged by how distorted people view our church?

I've been participating a lot in the apologetics threads lately, because I've been pretty much curled up on the sofa all week with a cup of tea and the lap top to fend off this nasty bug going around the house.  I've felt uplifted at times, by the affirmations of faith from other Catholics on CAF...but I've also been disheartened, offended, and outright worn out from the constant circular arguing!

Why is there so much hatred against the church? It feels sometimes, like I'm sitting on one side of the computer, and it isn't Christians I'm speaking to, it's the devil himself spouting lie after lie about the Catholic church!

It hurts so much sometimes…to know that these are REAL Christians, real children of God who truly do LOVE Christ… that the devil is using to spread so many lies and so much hatred! I feel like with every anti-catholic post, CHRISTIANS are casting stones right at our Lord Himself!

So I pray, and try to put myself in the line of fire to protect, to DEFEND and stand up for our Lord, but the problem is that I, being little as I am, cannot stand up against the slings as arrows as much as He.

I'm sorry to sound depressed or as if I do not have hope.. I DO have hope.. and I know that no matter what lies are spread, that the Church will never fail... but it hurts so much sometimes, just to witness the battle :(

discourage yes,. i take a break. i dont argue to much about any issue. as you notice, although distorted they have an answer for everything.

we must realize that the reformation was borne out of hate for the CC. they were all angry and remains to this day.

i see no point an argue with them.

anyway that is what i see… Peace onto you from our Lord, the Christ.

 

[gookykookypig]

All for Christ