Apologetics to persuade and not anger

[untruestory]

I have a hard time answering people’s objections/accusations against Catholicism without making them mad. Often times after I’ve exhausted the objection the conversation bounces to another objection and often the topic of faith ends on a negative vibe.

Are there any good audios or written articles on how a person can spin such conversations in a more positive direction?

I’m a convert and most of my acquaintances are rather anti-religious so this stuff comes up regularly. It makes me think of the saying “he who is convinced against his will is of the same opinion still”. If I prove my point but the other person isn’t convinced and all I’ve done is ruffle their feathers then what did I accomplish?

 

[Christy_Beth]

There are many out there who refuse to consider any point of view other than their own. They are entrenched in their beliefs, and can’t be persuaded of anything. I’m also a convert, and have learned the hard way that some Anti-Catholics are best left alone. All they will end up doing is drag you down to their level. There are many books and CD’s that may help. Anything by Scott Hahn would be a good start.

 

[Auntie_A]

A few ideas:

Sometimes it’s good to keep the “I believe” and “Me” statements. Remain subjective rather than speak in the royal “We believe”/objective mode. You have a right to your belief. Stay humble and strong. If someone offends you, let them know it but then get back on the topic.

Admit it if you’re talking yourself into a corner. Say, “I don’t know how to say it but I want to get back to you on this.” “I’m not sure of the answer; give me a day or two.”

Also, admit that Catholicism looks strange and goes against the secular grain;
“Look-I know it’s impossible to be perfect; we fail at this daily. Catholics are a mixed bag. Many of the saints led some pretty wicked lives at first. Only our leader (Jesus) succeeded”.
“We don’t let down the bar just because something is difficult.”
“I’d rather fail at being a good Catholic than succeed at being a good relativist/pagan/atheist.”

Use humor. I don’t mean you have to wimp out with your arguments. But vulnerability actually is more persuasive than overdrive. Pray for grace. Practice. Listen to good apologists. Read the good apologists. Also, learn the opposition arguments so you can refute them calmly. Some apologists say that the same questions are asked of Catholics over and over again yet we get stumped because we aren’t even preparing or listening. We’re just thinking of the next point to make.

Ask your friends where they got their beliefs. What made them turn away from God, the Church. Sometimes getting them to open up can bring the discussion down to some solid emotion. Be compassionate (I know that word is overused but you used the word “persuade”.) A good dose of empathy and compassion puts things on a calmer level.

 

[Attejohannes]

I am a new memeber, and sometimes I have engaged in the discussion in the “Non-catholic religions” forum.

I have noticed, that very easily the discussion turns contentious (and sometimes contemptuous). I think that it is because - consciously or not - we wish to proselytise (although it is officially forbidden).

My experience of this chain reactions is something like this:

1. There is an open thread commenting on or asking something of Protestantism
2. I answer according to my best doctrinal understanding trying to elucidate the Protestant standpoint
3. I get answers aiming to demonstrate, how wrong I am or how seriously I and my Denomination err (this is done probably with the best of motivations and with no intention to insult)
4. My gut reaction is to refute the points raised and wonder, how on earth anybody can have such misconceptions
5. I post my counterarguments, and - lo and behold - I get back counter-counterarguments
6. I counter the counter-counter arguments, maybe in somewhat sharper tones than in the beginning of the discussion
7. I get answers defending the Catholic standpoints and attacking mine
8. etc, etc, etc

My personal decision to prevent this happening henceforth is that I will simply answer the question and come back to my answer only, if someone sincerely wants to have any elaboration due to honest misunderstanding (which is probably due to my inability to explain complicated and sometimes abstract points in a language, which is not my own). Likewise, if I ask some detail of the Catholic doctrine or practice, I will just accept the answer, while I might agree or disagree with its content. I just will try to reaseon like this: “I asked the Catholic view, now I got it, basta”.

I hope that this will work with me.

Have a blesssed Easter

 

[jimmorehead]

There are many out there who refuse to consider any point of view other than their own. They are entrenched in their beliefs, and can’t be persuaded of anything. I’m also a convert, and have learned the hard way that some Anti-Catholics are best left alone. All they will end up doing is drag you down to their level. There are many books and CD’s that may help. Anything by Scott Hahn would be a good start.

I totally agree.
Also, Jesus was right. “And Jesus said to them: A prophet is not without honor, but in his own country, and in his own house, and among his own kindred. And he could not do any miracles there, only that he cured a few that were sick, laying his hands upon them”. (Mark 6:4, 5 DRA)

I have family (non-catholic) to which I will reply to an easy referenced theological question and [they] refuse to even consider the answer. But let some stranger come to the door telling them Jesus is alive and well on the planet Kolob inside the Andromeda Galaxy, they believe that.

I agree. Anti-catholics engage only for the luxury of having to debate you just to get a “rise” out of you. I noticed that it secretly inflames them if you don’t “bite” and express extreme confidence and JUST talk about how wonderful the entire world is embracing our new Pope! LOL. I just thank God he has made himself known to me through His church.

 

[JRKH]

I have a hard time answering people’s objections/accusations against Catholicism without making them mad. Often times after I’ve exhausted the objection the conversation bounces to another objection and often the topic of faith ends on a negative vibe.

Are there any good audios or written articles on how a person can spin such conversations in a more positive direction?

I’m a convert and most of my acquaintances are rather anti-religious so this stuff comes up regularly. It makes me think of the saying “he who is convinced against his will is of the same opinion still”. If I prove my point but the other person isn’t convinced and all I’ve done is ruffle their feathers then what did I accomplish?

There is a lot missing from this.

1. How do you know they are “Mad” (Angry)?
   People often times can get “heated” or forceful in discussions without actually getting “mad”. People do become frustrated…but here again…this is something different than “mad”
2. Who is bringing these things up?
   If they are then they should be prepared to graciously accept your answers etc…even if they disagree with them.
   If you are bringing these things up then they might feel “imposed upon” and that could be a source of frustration for them

The best way to keep these things positive to to witness more through action than with words. To always maintain calmness and composure. Treat others with respect - just as you wish to be treated with respect.

In the end, you are not responsible for whether they get angry or not. That is up to them. All you can do is to try your best to always approach these subjects calmly and in Charity. To give calm clear answers - to admit if you do not know an answer but offer to look it up and to accept that any change in their hearts will not be your work, but the work of the Holy Spirit.

Peace
James

 

[guanophore]

I have a hard time answering people’s objections/accusations against Catholicism without making them mad. Often times after I’ve exhausted the objection the conversation bounces to another objection and often the topic of faith ends on a negative vibe.

Are there any good audios or written articles on how a person can spin such conversations in a more positive direction?

I’m a convert and most of my acquaintances are rather anti-religious so this stuff comes up regularly. It makes me think of the saying “he who is convinced against his will is of the same opinion still”. If I prove my point but the other person isn’t convinced and all I’ve done is ruffle their feathers then what did I accomplish?

First of all, lots of prayer.

Second, the student is no better than the Master. You can see from the scriptures that many people got angry at Jesus and the Apostles. When there is demonic activity at work, and a persons’ ego is heavily invested, then disagreeing with them will be taken very personally.

In some cases it is better just to say “I will agree to disagree with you” or “we see it differently”. I think it is helpful to affirm people on the parts of the Apostolic faith they have retained, rather than focus on heresies or what has been lost. We share much more in common with our separated brethren than we do not.

 

[guanophore]

There is a lot missing from this.

1. How do you know they are “Mad” (Angry)?
   People often times can get “heated” or forceful in discussions without actually getting “mad”. People do become frustrated…but here again…this is something different than “mad”
2. Who is bringing these things up?
   If they are then they should be prepared to graciously accept your answers etc…even if they disagree with them.
   If you are bringing these things up then they might feel “imposed upon” and that could be a source of frustration for them

The best way to keep these things positive to to witness more through action than with words. To always maintain calmness and composure. Treat others with respect - just as you wish to be treated with respect.

In the end, you are not responsible for whether they get angry or not. That is up to them. All you can do is to try your best to always approach these subjects calmly and in Charity. To give calm clear answers - to admit if you do not know an answer but offer to look it up and to accept that any change in their hearts will not be your work, but the work of the Holy Spirit.

Peace
James

Great questiong James. Also you make a good point that most witnessing comes through living one’s faith.

Another recommendation might be to talk about experiencing the victorious Christian life, encountering Jesus through the sacraments, or other Catholic means. It is difficult to argue against a person experiencing Jesus.

 

[untruestory]

I’ve got a few CDs with Scott on them. Nothing exactly what I was looking for.

And yes, I feel like compassion is an important thing to keep in mind.

It is probably more often passion than anger and I don’t get people mad all the time just more often than I’d think I ought to. I try to avoid touchy subjects with acquaintances that don’t enjoy that kind of discussion.

I feel like after the clearing up a misunderstanding the other person feels like they lost something and coming from that place they don’t exactly feel all warm and fuzzy about it. We all feel either a little embarrassed or sore when we’re shown to be mistaken about something we insisted on. We’ve all heard that “people will forget what you say and do but they will always remember how you make them feel.” When people say things like how religion hates women and gays or we started most wars I don’t feel right about sitting quiet but I’m sure there must be something written or recorded on how to be a little more loving and less of a debater.

 

[JRKH]

I’ve got a few CDs with Scott on them. Nothing exactly what I was looking for.

And yes, I feel like compassion is an important thing to keep in mind.

It is probably more often passion than anger and I don’t get people mad all the time just more often than I’d think I ought to. I try to avoid touchy subjects with acquaintances that don’t enjoy that kind of discussion.

I feel like after the clearing up a misunderstanding the other person feels like they lost something and coming from that place they don’t exactly feel all warm and fuzzy about it. We all feel either a little embarrassed or sore when we’re shown to be mistaken about something we insisted on. We’ve all heard that “people will forget what you say and do but they will always remember how you make them feel.”

Very good points.
Of course these things are common to any sort of debate - interpersonal relationship.
You might try looking into more general titles along the lines of “How to Make Friends and Influence People”.
Most importantly - perhaps a bit of self examination is useful…
How did I respond to the statement?
How would I react to such a response directed at me?

We all can react badly - especially to the types of accusations you mention below - and it is our initial reaction that can often times set the tone for the entire conversation.
So it is necessary that we try to master our “first reaction” - our first response to such an accusation.

When people say things like how religion hates women and gays or we started most wars I don’t feel right about sitting quiet but I’m sure there must be something written or recorded on how to be a little more loving and less of a debater.

Such broad based comments are generally made by people who are not well informed. This is problematic from the get-go. It has been my experience that people who make such ill informed accusations are not looking to discuss the matter and never appreciate having their prejudice challenged.
In such cases, it is often best to begin by taking the position of being interested in understanding better. Ask some questions intended to draw out examples of what they mean. Respond by saying something like “That’s interesting and I see your point (an affirmation of them as a person) but…” and then present a counterpoint.
Present he counterpoint calmly - and watch for his/her reaction to your counterpoint.
If you have listened carefully to them, according them respect and affirmation, but they act dismissive of you and your points…Then you know that this person is not interested in actual discussion.
At this point - if it is just the two of you - you can either “call him” on his poor behavior or discontinue the conversation. If others are around…you might choose to continue the conversation for their benefit…It gets complicated.

The key though is to remain calm and charitable…treating the other in the manner you wish to be treated…and then recognizing that you can only do so much. If they are going to be angry……there isn’t much you can do about it.

Peace
James

 

[Iron_Donkey]

I have a hard time answering people’s objections/accusations against Catholicism without making them mad. Often times after I’ve exhausted the objection the conversation bounces to another objection and often the topic of faith ends on a negative vibe.

Are there any good audios or written articles on how a person can spin such conversations in a more positive direction?

I’m a convert and most of my acquaintances are rather anti-religious so this stuff comes up regularly. It makes me think of the saying “he who is convinced against his will is of the same opinion still”. If I prove my point but the other person isn’t convinced and all I’ve done is ruffle their feathers then what did I accomplish?

A couple years back I joined an atheist dominated philosophy group on facebook to debate stuff (primarily the existence of absolute morality and the like - and that’s what the group was for, I try to avoid making people feel like they’re under attack) when my job was to sit in a computer lab for hours on end and do nothing until a student had a question.

What I learned is that some people are really, really angry, and will spew vitriol and little else the whole time.

But I also learned that some people are really, really angry, will spew vitriol the whole time, but are nonetheless actually processing what you say. And eventually, when they discover that you are also well meaning and sincere (and I do think many of them are well meaning, just not terribly adept at communicating that to people they disagree with), and that what you say has some sense to it, the vitriol will die down a bit and if they don’t immediately concede your point, they may at least admit that your point was not as stupid as they had once thought.

What I tried to do was always remain polite (failed a few times, but hey. At least they appreciated sarcasm over there) and address any real points behind the anger. Towards the end I had a couple atheists admitting that theism wasn’t quiet as ridiculous as they thought - even if they didn’t buy into it right then.

I count that as a success, hoping that other successes will follow later.

I say all this and bolded and italicized part of your post because some of the people among the angry dismissive crowd when I first started talking with them ended up in the group of people who (sometimes slightly grudgingly) admitted that the position wasn’t as stupid as all that towards the end.

So I would say that we should not try to ruffle feathers, or at least not have that as a goal, but that we should defend and present the truth as and when appropriate and not consider ruffled failures as a direct failure - especially if the other person is bringing this stuff up. Even if it does not seem immediately apparent, and even if the person won’t admit it, they may be considering what you say and noticing that it’s not as stupid as they thought.

And they may be… less than polite in the process. So while heated discussions aren’t good in themselves, I wouldn’t necessarily consider them worthless even if at the end of the argument neither side admits to have changed its mind at all. The points may bang around inside their minds after the argument stops and they may see the reasonableness of some of what you say some time later.

 

[ahs]

There are 2 great books that will help:

1. How NOT to Share Your Faith, by Mark Brumley
2. Born Fundamentalist, Born Again Catholic, by David Currie

The first gives great insight on how to share the faith, and what to avoid, attitudes, goals, realistic thinking, etc…that are invaluable in apologetics. It’s an easy read and goes quickyl…even for me (a guy who does NOT like to read).

The other shows it in practice. David wrote that book, initially, as a letter to his dad (an Evangelical preacher) about why he was converting to Catholicism and the way her presents his points is very much in line with the points the Brumley makes.

shop.catholic.com/books-1/apologetics/how-not-to-share-your-faith-the-seven-deadly-sins-of-apologetics-and-evangelization.html

shop.catholic.com/books-1/apologetics/born-fundamentalist-born-again-catholic.html

 

[untruestory]

There are 2 great books that will help:

1. How NOT to Share Your Faith, by Mark Brumley
2. Born Fundamentalist, Born Again Catholic, by David Currie

The first gives great insight on how to share the faith, and what to avoid, attitudes, goals, realistic thinking, etc…that are invaluable in apologetics. It’s an easy read and goes quickyl…even for me (a guy who does NOT like to read).

The other shows it in practice. David wrote that book, initially, as a letter to his dad (an Evangelical preacher) about why he was converting to Catholicism and the way her presents his points is very much in line with the points the Brumley makes.

shop.catholic.com/books-1/apologetics/how-not-to-share-your-faith-the-seven-deadly-sins-of-apologetics-and-evangelization.html

shop.catholic.com/books-1/apologetics/born-fundamentalist-born-again-catholic.html

Great stuff! The first book I’ll be reading for sure. Not sure about the second. I do fairly well explaining Catholicism with other’s that have a love for Jesus. The common ground is a great place to start and go back to if things get off track. It’s the anti-religious types that I have a hard time communicating with which is funny because I spent most of my life as an atheist.