Archaeological disproof of Mormonism

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I live in West Virginia near Moundsville, a town named after the giant burial mound built by an ancient mound-building people. These people lived from 1000BC to around 700 AD. We know they traded extensively because of the materials used in their jewelry (shells from the Gulf of Mexico even). My question is that if these ancient people, who predated the alleged Nephites and Lamanites of the BoM, had such an extensive society, why do we have copper and shell jewelry from them, but no breastplates, shields, or swords like those listed in the Book of Ether in the BoM. It seems like a trading society would have stumbled upon that technology at some point.
adena.com/adena/ad/ad01.htm

Incidentally, if we have evidence of societies from 1000 BC in this hemisphere, why no evidence of the BoM societies? Also, why no horses or elephants before Columbus brought them? The book of Ether plainly says (and it came to pass) there was a peacetime with horses and other animals useful to man.
 
The most interesting thing in what you wrote is about the moundbuilders, apparently building mounds 5,000-10,000 years ago was the thing to do, they find these things all over the world. I went inside one called Newgrange in Ireleand it predates the pyramids.

Intersting why ancient peoples all over the world were building mounds.

Also you kinda shoot yourself in the foot by claiming copper was used by these ancient peoples, because metalurgy was always used as a means to discredit the BofM stating metalurgy was not used in the ancient world.
 
I seriously can’t understand how anyone could take this mormon thing seriously. That cult really steps in it when they talk about the Nephites.

Can you imagine, if in the Gospels, you see something like this:

“Blessed are those without Ipods, for they will inherit 'leet beamers”

or

“Lord, we only have this child, and he has only two microwavable burritos!”
 
The most interesting thing in what you wrote is about the moundbuilders, apparently building mounds 5,000-10,000 years ago was the thing to do, they find these things all over the world. I went inside one called Newgrange in Ireleand it predates the pyramids.

Intersting why ancient peoples all over the world were building mounds.

Also you kinda shoot yourself in the foot by claiming copper was used by these ancient peoples, because metalurgy was always used as a means to discredit the BofM stating metalurgy was not used in the ancient world.
Well, i’m looking for truth and if the metallurgy argument doesn’t work, it doesn’t. However, there is a large different between pounding shiny copper into jewelry and forging iron for weaponry. With the many battles fought in the BoM, where are the remnants of the many breastplates and swords undoubtedly used in these great battles?
 
Mounds have several functions, both spiritual and practical. Spiritually, they bring people closer to the sky, where the Gods live-- the sun-god, etc. Practically, they provide shelter from floods for people living on the rich earth of flood-plains. Nothing exceptional about that.

Metallurgy was very primitive, not non-existent. Copper, gold, and, I believe, silver were in use. They are all soft metals, having little use as weapons. There is some evidence of use of meteoric iron, in much later times.

Thge only domesticated animals were dogs, llamas, guinea pigs, and turkeys.

We need to be honest in refuting LDS claims about pre-Columbian America.
 
Lord, we only have this child, and he has only two microwavable burritos!
MMMM… Fire burritos… I want some…
:bounce:

yum…

er…

ee…

um…

those fire burritos go right through me… brb… I need to go to the bathroom…




Just wanted to let you know… you need air freshener…
 
Well, i’m looking for truth and if the metallurgy argument doesn’t work, it doesn’t. However, there is a large different between pounding shiny copper into jewelry and forging iron for weaponry. With the many battles fought in the BoM, where are the remnants of the many breastplates and swords undoubtedly used in these great battles?
I’m no Mormon Apologist and I do not believe the Book of Mormon or any of its stories. However the western world we live in today was largely primitive prior to Columbus arriving except for maybe the Mayan and Aztec civilizations. But it can’t really be equated to the ancient Roman or Greek world which has always been a hotbed of civilization with large cities with millions of inhabitants keeping up the technology and civilization by rebuilding, writing and passing on what was learned.

When we came here much of the world was desolate with small tribes living rudimentary lifestyles. It wouldn’t be hard to imagine iron rusting and rotting until nothing remained, that would not take long in the Americas. I watched a show called Population Zero on the NGC and it was interesting, if no humans existed within 300 years there would little to no sign at all of human existance aside from some large monuments which may maintain pieces of their structure. Our cities would be demolished and buried under, that’s only in a few hundred years, in a few thousand years nothing would remain aside from the great pyramids and what we left on the moon.

Now again I don’t believe the Book of Mormon but comparing the Western hemisphere and mesoamerica with the ancient Roman and Greek worlds is a poor comparison.
 
Jared Diamond’s books:

“Guns, Germs, and Steel” and “Collapse” can give you a better picture of the what, how and why of these subjects.
(both are colonized, but the short titles are good enough.)
 
Mounds have several functions, both spiritual and practical. Spiritually, they bring people closer to the sky, where the Gods live-- the sun-god, etc. Practically, they provide shelter from floods for people living on the rich earth of flood-plains. Nothing exceptional about that.

Metallurgy was very primitive, not non-existent. Copper, gold, and, I believe, silver were in use. They are all soft metals, having little use as weapons. There is some evidence of use of meteoric iron, in much later times.

Thge only domesticated animals were dogs, llamas, guinea pigs, and turkeys.

We need to be honest in refuting LDS claims about pre-Columbian America.
Okay, the mounds exist, but don’t really have anything to do with my point. Forget the mounds. Sorry if that blurred the issue.
The book of Ether indicates that the Nephites had horses, which they did not. Nor elephants.
I am willing to concede that the desert in the middle east may have preserved ancient civilization better than the dampness we have in the western hemisphere. That is the sort of explanation i’m seeking.
 
Smithsonian Institution Letter - Statement Regarding The Book Of Mormon
1996

See also Smithsonian Institution Letter - Statement Regarding The Book Of Mormon

The Smithsonian Institution has never used the Book of Mormon in any way as a scientific guide. Smithsonian archeologists see no direct connection between the archeology of the New World and the subject matter of the book.

The physical type of the American Indian is basically Mongoloid, being most closely related to that of the peoples of eastern. central, and northeastern Asia. Archeological evidence indicates that the ancestors of the present Indians cane into the New World - probably over a land bridge known to have existed in the Being Strait region during the last Ice Age - in a continuing series of small migrations beginning from about 25,000 to 30,000 years ago.

Present evidence indicates that the first people to reach this continent from the East were the Norsemen who briefly visited the northeastern part of North America around A.D. 1000 and then settled in Greenland. There is nothing to show that they reached Mexico or Central America.

One of the main lines of evidence supporting the scientific finding that contacts with Old World civilizations if indeed they occurred at all, were of very little significance for the development of American Indian civilizations, is the fact that none of the principal Old World domesticated food plants or animals (except the dog) occurred in the New World in pre-Columbian times. American Indians had no wheat, barley oats, millet, rice, cattle, pigs, chickens, horses, donkeys, camels before 1492. (Camels and horses were in the Americas, along with the bison, mammoth, and mastodon, but all these animals became extinct around 10,000 B.C. at the time when the early big game hunters spread across the Americas.)

Iron, steel, glass, and silk were not used in the New World before 1492 (except for occasional use of unsmelted meteoric iron). Native copper was worked in various locations in pre-Columbian times, but true metallurgy was limited to southern Mexico and the Andean region, where its occurrence in late prehistoric times involved gold, silver, copper, and their alloys, but not iron.

There is a possibility that the spread of cultural traits across the Pacific to Mesoamerica and the northwestern coast of South America began several hundred years before the Christian era. However, any such inter-hemispheric contacts appear to have been the results of accidental voyages originating in eastern and southern Asia. It is by no means certain that even such contacts occurred; certainly there were no contacts with the ancient Egyptians, Hebrews, or other peoples of Western Asian and the Near East.

No reputable Egyptologist or other specialist on Old World archeology, and no expert on New World prehistory, has discovered or confirmed any relationship between archeological remains in Mexico and archeological remains in Egypt.

Reports of findings of ancient Egyptian Hebrew, and other Old World writings in the New World in pre-Columbian contexts have frequently appeared in newspapers, magazines, and sensational books. None of these claims has stood up to examination by reputable scholars. No inscriptions using Old World forms of writing have been shown to have occurred in any part of the Americas before 1492 except for a few Norse rune stones which have been found in Greenland.

rickross.com/reference/mormon/mormon17.html
 
I’m no Mormon Apologist and I do not believe the Book of Mormon or any of its stories. However the western world we live in today was largely primitive prior to Columbus arriving except for maybe the Mayan and Aztec civilizations. But it can’t really be equated to the ancient Roman or Greek world which has always been a hotbed of civilization with large cities with millions of inhabitants keeping up the technology and civilization by rebuilding, writing and passing on what was learned.

When we came here much of the world was desolate with small tribes living rudimentary lifestyles. It wouldn’t be hard to imagine iron rusting and rotting until nothing remained, that would not take long in the Americas. I watched a show called Population Zero on the NGC and it was interesting, if no humans existed within 300 years there would little to no sign at all of human existance aside from some large monuments which may maintain pieces of their structure. Our cities would be demolished and buried under, that’s only in a few hundred years, in a few thousand years nothing would remain aside from the great pyramids and what we left on the moon.

Now again I don’t believe the Book of Mormon but comparing the Western hemisphere and mesoamerica with the ancient Roman and Greek worlds is a poor comparison.
however, we have found extensive ruins of pre-columbian cities and villages and have succeeded in painting a pretty detailed picture of what their lives and cultures were like. we can see from their paintings and in some cases translate writings to know what they had and how what they did and even in some cases what they believed. not only is there an absence of evidence for old world style metal items as described in the BoM but there appears to be evidence that it simply did not exist since we can see the items that they used instead. the BoM’s silence on what we know to have existed is in my mind just as telling as the absence of what it CLAIMS to have existed from the archaeological record.

whyme,
the Q’uran has not been proven false and there exists many more than 8 eight witnesses attesting to it’s divine origin who walked and talked with mohammed and never denied their testimonies. millions of muslims have claimed a spiritual witness after reading it. Most muslims don’t drink or engage in sexual immorality. guess that means you need to build up islam on the MADB whenever you see it attacked.:rolleyes:
 
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