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Tx3bro
Guest
What do you guys think? Does the factor that they have spoken to god in a literal sense speak for itself or does will the reality that they discovered sin haunt them in the fire?
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truthquester
Guest
Well, for the most part I am very skeptical about this story of Adam and Eve. I think it is more metaphorical than fact because snakes don’t talk and there’s no such thing as magical apples that will make you instantly smart.
But, if it was true, how can they be eternally punished? They only had one rule and they broke it. Their punishment was given when they got kicked out of the garden, why would God punish them a second time for the same thing? He is not cruel and He loved them both very very much.
They would be our ancestors and we should respect them.
Hope this helps.
But, if it was true, how can they be eternally punished? They only had one rule and they broke it. Their punishment was given when they got kicked out of the garden, why would God punish them a second time for the same thing? He is not cruel and He loved them both very very much.
They would be our ancestors and we should respect them.
Hope this helps.
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bzkoss236
Guest
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LINVS
Guest
I doubt they made it to Heaven. They committed the first Mortal Sin among mankind. Apart of me wants to say because of their celebrity, they are in Heaven, but that’s my secular mind speaking.
D
Dave_B
Guest
I doubt if they were real people.
“Haunt them in the fire”. What kind of deity tortures innocent people in fire?
G
grannymh
Guest
Adam and Eve are just as real as you and me. I hope you live your life so you can be in eternal joy. Memories per se do not send humans to hell. Unrepented mortal sins will.
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Nige90
Guest
CCC 635: He has gone to search for Adam, our first father, as for a lost sheep. Greatly desiring to visit those who live in darkness and in the shadow of death, he has gone to free from sorrow Adam in his bonds and Eve, captive with him
This from the Catechism would suggest that when Jesus decended to the dead He saved Adam and Eve and brought them to Heaven. All those in Heaven are saints and so by default Adam and Eve are saints.
It is intresting to note as well that the old roman calander used to have a feast for Ss Adam and Eve on the 24th December.
This from the Catechism would suggest that when Jesus decended to the dead He saved Adam and Eve and brought them to Heaven. All those in Heaven are saints and so by default Adam and Eve are saints.
It is intresting to note as well that the old roman calander used to have a feast for Ss Adam and Eve on the 24th December.
A
ajecphotos
Guest
I am sure that if there was indeed an Adam and Eve god would have forgiven them. I might be wrong but I think a few or more stories in the bible are not meant to be taken literally but there is hidden meanings to them?
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grannymh
Guest
We have God present in the Eucharist every day. That sounds literal to me.
G
grannymh
Guest
“Ah” one says, “the famous hidden meanings.”
Yup! Thank heavens the Catholic Church does not have hidden meanings.
M
Mintaka
Guest
Adam and Eve are saints in Heaven… now.
They were saved by Christ’s Passion, Death, Descent into Hell, and Resurrection. The event of Christ saving our ancestors in the faith is called “the Harrowing of Hell” (ie Sheol/Hell, as seen in the Apostles’ Creed) or “the Preaching to the Patriarchs” in old books.
They are commemorated as saints on December 24th. Many other Old Testament patriarchs and matriarchs have saints’ days because Christ saved them too.
There have been chapels dedicated to Ss. Adam and Eve in various places, most famously in Dublin. A pub where Mass was secretly said was named “Adam and Eve’s” as a clue to its holy purpose. The church that was later built in the area was initially dedicated to St. Francis and then (more consonantly with Adam and Eve) to Mary as the Immaculate Conception, but the parish is still “Adam and Eve’s” to the people in the neighborhood.
There is a fairly common theme in medieval/Renaissance painting of showing Eve and Mary both standing under the Tree of Life, with Mary smiling on Eve to show that Eve got a happy ending when Eve was saved by Mary’s Son (as well as the Old Eve/New Eve thing).
They were saved by Christ’s Passion, Death, Descent into Hell, and Resurrection. The event of Christ saving our ancestors in the faith is called “the Harrowing of Hell” (ie Sheol/Hell, as seen in the Apostles’ Creed) or “the Preaching to the Patriarchs” in old books.
They are commemorated as saints on December 24th. Many other Old Testament patriarchs and matriarchs have saints’ days because Christ saved them too.
There have been chapels dedicated to Ss. Adam and Eve in various places, most famously in Dublin. A pub where Mass was secretly said was named “Adam and Eve’s” as a clue to its holy purpose. The church that was later built in the area was initially dedicated to St. Francis and then (more consonantly with Adam and Eve) to Mary as the Immaculate Conception, but the parish is still “Adam and Eve’s” to the people in the neighborhood.
There is a fairly common theme in medieval/Renaissance painting of showing Eve and Mary both standing under the Tree of Life, with Mary smiling on Eve to show that Eve got a happy ending when Eve was saved by Mary’s Son (as well as the Old Eve/New Eve thing).
M
Mintaka
Guest
Here’s some bits my friend Deiseach quoted from her friend Dante ("The Divine Comedy”, ‘Paradiso’):
Canto XXVI, the Heaven of the Fixed Stars: Dante meets Adam
80 And almost dazed with wonder I inquired
about a fourth light shining there among us.
My lady answered: ‘Within these rays
the first soul ever made by the First Power
looks with love upon his Maker.’
As the tree that bends its highest branches
in a gust of wind and then springs back,
raised up by natural inclination,
so was I overcome while she was speaking —
awe-struck — and then restored to confidence
by the words that burned in me to be expressed.
I began: ‘O fruit who alone were brought forth ripe,
O ancient father, of whom each bride
is at once daughter and daughter-in-law,
as humbly as I am able, I make supplication
for you to speak with me. You know what I long for.
To have your answer sooner I leave that unsaid.’
Canto XXXII, the Empyrean – the White Rose of the Blessed: Dante sees Eve
Absorbed in his delight, that man of contemplation
took upon himself the teacher’s role
and spoke these holy words:
‘The wound that Mary closed up and anointed
was opened and inflicted
by the lovely woman now at Mary’s feet.
Below her, in the order
formed by the third tier of the seats,
as you can see, Rachel sits with Beatrice.
Sarah and Rebecca, Judith and she —
great-grandmother of that singer who,
grieving for his sin, cried: “Miserere mei” —
may be seen there, one beneath the other,
in their ordered ranks, while I, pausing for each name,
move petal by petal down through the rose.
And downward from the seventh tier, or up,
parting all the petals of this flower,
are the appointed seats of Hebrew women.’
Canto XXVI, the Heaven of the Fixed Stars: Dante meets Adam
80 And almost dazed with wonder I inquired
about a fourth light shining there among us.
My lady answered: ‘Within these rays
the first soul ever made by the First Power
looks with love upon his Maker.’
As the tree that bends its highest branches
in a gust of wind and then springs back,
raised up by natural inclination,
so was I overcome while she was speaking —
awe-struck — and then restored to confidence
by the words that burned in me to be expressed.
I began: ‘O fruit who alone were brought forth ripe,
O ancient father, of whom each bride
is at once daughter and daughter-in-law,
as humbly as I am able, I make supplication
for you to speak with me. You know what I long for.
To have your answer sooner I leave that unsaid.’
Canto XXXII, the Empyrean – the White Rose of the Blessed: Dante sees Eve
Absorbed in his delight, that man of contemplation
took upon himself the teacher’s role
and spoke these holy words:
‘The wound that Mary closed up and anointed
was opened and inflicted
by the lovely woman now at Mary’s feet.
Below her, in the order
formed by the third tier of the seats,
as you can see, Rachel sits with Beatrice.
Sarah and Rebecca, Judith and she —
great-grandmother of that singer who,
grieving for his sin, cried: “Miserere mei” —
may be seen there, one beneath the other,
in their ordered ranks, while I, pausing for each name,
move petal by petal down through the rose.
And downward from the seventh tier, or up,
parting all the petals of this flower,
are the appointed seats of Hebrew women.’
B
boomerang
Guest
From the Vatican’s website:
The Lord’s descent into hell
"What is happening? Today there is a great silence over the earth, a great silence, and stillness, a great silence because the King sleeps; the earth was in terror and was still, because God slept in the flesh and raised up those who were sleeping from the ages. God has died in the flesh, and the underworld has trembled.
Truly he goes to seek out our first parent like a lost sheep; he wishes to visit those who sit in darkness and in the shadow of death. He goes to free the prisoner Adam and his fellow-prisoner Eve from their pains, he who is God, and Adam’s son.
The Lord goes in to them holding his victorious weapon, his cross. When Adam, the first created man, sees him, he strikes his breast in terror and calls out to all: ‘My Lord be with you all.’ And Christ in reply says to Adam: ‘And with your spirit.’ And grasping his hand he raises him up, saying: ‘Awake, O sleeper, and arise from the dead, and Christ shall give you light.
‘I am your God, who for your sake became your son, who for you and your descendants now speak and command with authority those in prison: Come forth, and those in darkness: Have light, and those who sleep: Rise.
‘I command you: Awake, sleeper, I have not made you to be held a prisoner in the underworld. Arise from the dead; I am the life of the dead. Arise, O man, work of my hands, arise, you who were fashioned in my image. Rise, let us go hence; for you in me and I in you, together we are one undivided person.
‘For you, I your God became your son; for you, I the Master took on your form; that of slave; for you, I who am above the heavens came on earth and under the earth; for you, man, I became as a man without help, free among the dead; for you, who left a garden, I was handed over to Jews from a garden and crucified in a garden.
‘Look at the spittle on my face, which I received because of you, in order to restore you to that first divine inbreathing at creation. See the blows on my cheeks, which I accepted in order to refashion your distorted form to my own image.
'See the scourging of my back, which I accepted in order to disperse the load of your sins which was laid upon your back. See my hands nailed to the tree for a good purpose, for you, who stretched out your hand to the tree for an evil one.
`I slept on the cross and a sword pierced my side, for you, who slept in paradise and brought forth Eve from your side. My side healed the pain of your side; my sleep will release you from your sleep in Hades; my sword has checked the sword which was turned against you.
‘But arise, let us go hence. The enemy brought you out of the land of paradise; I will reinstate you, no longer in paradise, but on the throne of heaven. I denied you the tree of life, which was a figure, but now I myself am united to you, I who am life. I posted the cherubim to guard you as they would slaves; now I make the cherubim worship you as they would God.
“The cherubim throne has been prepared, the bearers are ready and waiting, the bridal chamber is in order, the food is provided, the everlasting houses and rooms are in readiness; the treasures of good things have been opened; the kingdom of heaven has been prepared before the ages.”
A reading from an ancient homily for Holy Saturday
vatican.va/spirit/documents/spirit_20010414_omelia-sabato-santo_en.html
The Lord’s descent into hell
"What is happening? Today there is a great silence over the earth, a great silence, and stillness, a great silence because the King sleeps; the earth was in terror and was still, because God slept in the flesh and raised up those who were sleeping from the ages. God has died in the flesh, and the underworld has trembled.
Truly he goes to seek out our first parent like a lost sheep; he wishes to visit those who sit in darkness and in the shadow of death. He goes to free the prisoner Adam and his fellow-prisoner Eve from their pains, he who is God, and Adam’s son.
The Lord goes in to them holding his victorious weapon, his cross. When Adam, the first created man, sees him, he strikes his breast in terror and calls out to all: ‘My Lord be with you all.’ And Christ in reply says to Adam: ‘And with your spirit.’ And grasping his hand he raises him up, saying: ‘Awake, O sleeper, and arise from the dead, and Christ shall give you light.
‘I am your God, who for your sake became your son, who for you and your descendants now speak and command with authority those in prison: Come forth, and those in darkness: Have light, and those who sleep: Rise.
‘I command you: Awake, sleeper, I have not made you to be held a prisoner in the underworld. Arise from the dead; I am the life of the dead. Arise, O man, work of my hands, arise, you who were fashioned in my image. Rise, let us go hence; for you in me and I in you, together we are one undivided person.
‘For you, I your God became your son; for you, I the Master took on your form; that of slave; for you, I who am above the heavens came on earth and under the earth; for you, man, I became as a man without help, free among the dead; for you, who left a garden, I was handed over to Jews from a garden and crucified in a garden.
‘Look at the spittle on my face, which I received because of you, in order to restore you to that first divine inbreathing at creation. See the blows on my cheeks, which I accepted in order to refashion your distorted form to my own image.
'See the scourging of my back, which I accepted in order to disperse the load of your sins which was laid upon your back. See my hands nailed to the tree for a good purpose, for you, who stretched out your hand to the tree for an evil one.
`I slept on the cross and a sword pierced my side, for you, who slept in paradise and brought forth Eve from your side. My side healed the pain of your side; my sleep will release you from your sleep in Hades; my sword has checked the sword which was turned against you.
‘But arise, let us go hence. The enemy brought you out of the land of paradise; I will reinstate you, no longer in paradise, but on the throne of heaven. I denied you the tree of life, which was a figure, but now I myself am united to you, I who am life. I posted the cherubim to guard you as they would slaves; now I make the cherubim worship you as they would God.
“The cherubim throne has been prepared, the bearers are ready and waiting, the bridal chamber is in order, the food is provided, the everlasting houses and rooms are in readiness; the treasures of good things have been opened; the kingdom of heaven has been prepared before the ages.”
A reading from an ancient homily for Holy Saturday
vatican.va/spirit/documents/spirit_20010414_omelia-sabato-santo_en.html
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Prayer_Warrior
Guest
The need for the Savior is closely hinged upon the reality of original sin. I’m not sure about other Christian religions, but it is clearly taught by the Church that we had two first parents, that the fall from grace impacted the whole human race, and that God deigned to send His Son for the forgiveness of sins and to restore the grace that was lost by the fall. Those who are Catholic who say they aren’t real, should read the the teachings of the Church.
Here is one snippet of the CCC but one should read the whole section…
399 The account of the fall in Genesis 3 uses figurative language, but affirms a primeval event, a deed that took place at the beginning of the history of man. Revelation gives us the certainty of faith that the whole of human history is marked by the original fault freely committed by our first parents.
As to whether Adam and Eve are saints, we do not know. They have not been proclaimed to be saints as far as I am aware. Yet, I trust that having been so close to God, and then losing His grace, they were sincerely repentant (after they stopped pointing fingers of blame at each other). If they died in God’s friendship, they would have gone with all of the righteous dead to await the Savior. Personally, I am confident that they are saints, but I know I am speculating when I say that.
Here is one snippet of the CCC but one should read the whole section…
399 The account of the fall in Genesis 3 uses figurative language, but affirms a primeval event, a deed that took place at the beginning of the history of man. Revelation gives us the certainty of faith that the whole of human history is marked by the original fault freely committed by our first parents.
As to whether Adam and Eve are saints, we do not know. They have not been proclaimed to be saints as far as I am aware. Yet, I trust that having been so close to God, and then losing His grace, they were sincerely repentant (after they stopped pointing fingers of blame at each other). If they died in God’s friendship, they would have gone with all of the righteous dead to await the Savior. Personally, I am confident that they are saints, but I know I am speculating when I say that.
Adam also had 930 years to repent. Further they called upon the name of the Lord even after they had been driven out of Eden.
Further, read the Harrowing of Hell, the ancient homily for Holy Saturday for what the Church believes about Adam. Christ tells him, “Come, let us leave this place.”
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