Are Arabs/Muslims really Children of Ismael?

[Archedreamer]

I am not sure this is the correct place where ask this question… but philosophy and ethnopsychology are very much linked.

They are true? Or could be Muslims true when they say that they are Children of Ismael? Muhammad said that about him. It was maybe a national legend among Arabs. Does this make all Muslim ismaelites? Not all Muslim are Arab (nor all Arab Muslim). Jews are Children of Israel… a Gentile become Jew could maybe too be named Child of Israel.

I think remember that Nabateans (proto-arabs) are caractherised at the Bible as Children of Esauh, not of Ismael… .

Thank you so much!

 

[Alberti_Devoveo]

Are Arabs physically/genetically linked to Ishmael? Perhaps for some of them, there is some blood of Ishmael there.

The more important question is: Does it matter? No. God’s promise was passed to Isaac through Abraham, not his illegitimate child from his servant.

 

[Archedreamer]

But doesn’t have the Ishmaelite lineage some kind of personality Muslims could be custodians (if Ishamelites)?

 

[sparrowhawk28]

Interesting. I’m studying Theology, and last week my lecturer actually spoke about this.

He said that the Arab peoples are descended from Ishmael. Ishmael did still receive favour from God, but it was through Isaac that God’s promise was revealed and passed down.

 

[Alberti_Devoveo]

But doesn’t have the Ishmaelite lineage some kind of personality Muslims could be custodians (if Ishamelites)?

Perhaps it is a translation error, but I have little idea as to what you are asking. Could you please phrase your question in an alternative way?

 

[Archedreamer]

Hahaha… sorry .

I meant: Could Muslims have, if they were Ishmaelites, some kind of role at the Providence from God to Human History? Some paper at the developement of Sacred Human History?

 

[Bezant]

I am not sure this is the correct place where ask this question… but philosophy and ethnopsychology are very much linked.

They are true? Or could be Muslims true when they say that they are Children of Ismael? Muhammad said that about him. It was maybe a national legend among Arabs. Does this make all Muslim ismaelites? Not all Muslim are Arab (nor all Arab Muslim). Jews are Children of Israel… a Gentile become Jew could maybe too be named Child of Israel.

I think remember that Nabateans (proto-arabs) are caractherised at the Bible as Children of Esauh, not of Ismael… .

Thank you so much!

Hello,

The proper place for this question would be in the Non-Catholic Religions forum.

How do you know whether or not Muslims are Ishmaelites? Well, how do you know that Jews are Israelites (i.e., descended from Jacob through Isaac)? You don’t.

For the people who claim them, those heritages are important for their histories, and may not understand those heritages as strictly literal.

By the way, when a non-Jew converts to Judaism, he becomes as much a part of the people of Israel as a born Jew.

 

[Bezant]

The more important question is: Does it matter? No. God’s promise was passed to Isaac through Abraham, not his illegitimate child from his servant.

I disagree that Ishmael would have been considered illegitimate in his time. And we must not forget that God made more than one promised blessing to Abraham. The first is that he will be the father of many nations. The second blessing is that one of those nations will eventually become the people of Israel who have the special duty of bringing God’s light into the world. And the people of Israel receive other blessings, such as the blessing of priesthood and the blessing of kingship. So although Isaac was meant to father the people of Israel, Ishmael inherited the promise of fathering many nations–in this case, the Ishmaelites. And like Ishmael, Esau was also entitled to the same promise–fathering the Edomite nation–even though he gave up his birthright to father the nation of Israel.

 

[Bezant]

Hahaha… sorry .

I meant: Could Muslims have, if they were Ishmaelites, some kind of role at the Providence from God to Human History? Some paper at the developement of Sacred Human History?

I don’t think being the literal Children of Ishmael is nearly as important as inheriting a monotheistic religion. The thing about Providence is that while we’re living in it, almost no one sees it working its way through human history. Heck, we can’t even agree about it while we’re living in it. However, I think that Muslims are important in helping us in having the world realise the very basic assumption that God works within and above the world, he matters, and he cares about how we live our lives.

 

[Alberti_Devoveo]

I disagree that Ishmael would have been considered illegitimate in his time. And we must not forget that God made more than one promised blessing to Abraham. The first is that he will be the father of many nations. The second blessing is that one of those nations will eventually become the people of Israel who have the special duty of bringing God’s light into the world. And the people of Israel receive other blessings, such as the blessing of priesthood and the blessing of kingship. So although Isaac was meant to father the people of Israel, Ishmael inherited the promise of fathering many nations–in this case, the Ishmaelites. And like Ishmael, Esau was also entitled to the same promise–fathering the Edomite nation–even though he gave up his birthright to father the nation of Israel.

Consider first
[BIBLEDRB]Genesis 17:21[/BIBLEDRB]
And then,
[BIBLEDRB]Genesis 22:17[/BIBLEDRB]
If you put some thought into it, I was clearly referring to the promise of Jesus (the last portion of the latter quote) which comes from Isaac (the former quote), and not the promise of numerous descendants.