Are Heaven and heck "states of being" or "places"?

[sidetrack]

This is confusing for me.I’ve heard that Heaven and *heck are best described as “states of being”.One a state of eternal bliss and like unity with God and the other and state of eternal torment and being permenently distanced from God’s love.However if I consider and think of them as being “states of being” then this sort of conflicts with how other beings “live”/reside their.I’m reffering to angels,saints in Heaven and demons and the bedamned in heck.If their around then wouldn’t that mean that Heaven and heck would have to be “places” in order for them to be “living” their and not “states of being”? .

I’m really stumped here ,Wouldn’t this only make sense if you think about in the conventional way of thinking about Heaven and heck as “places” by which more specifically I mean realms of existance and not something more to the effect of states of existance?.

*for those who are thinking about chiding me for using the word heck instead of the other one (b/c it’s happened before in the past -_-) I just like to say that I do that b/c for the most part I’m not comfortable saying the other word.

 

[Shlomo]

I think of them as realms whose essential features are producing a certain state of being.

For example, we can have Kingdom of Heaven inside us.

That is wonderful, because even without being ‘located’ in the realm, we still can benefit from belonging to it.

 

[Iron_Donkey]

My understanding: State of being is in some sense a broader term than location. That is, the possibility of heaven being in some sense analogical to an actual place is included in saying that it’s a state of being.

Put it this way: to describe my entire state of being right now would include, in addition to the state of my soul, whether or not I’m happy, etc etc, the fact that I am sitting in this room in front of a computer.

Being in heaven is being in the state of being united with God. But we simply don’t know what other aspects there will be to this state. It could be that the idea of location carries over nearly exactly, or it could be that there isn’t anything like it at all (although it seems like there is likely to be something at least, since we know we will be bodily resurrected - however we don’t know exactly what glorified bodies will be like either). Because it is easiest for us to talk in terms of things we already know, we talk about it at times as though it were a place, and that’s fine, but it really is simply unknown to us.

As for angels and saints - well the angels who haven’t fallen and the saints are united with God. They are in the state of being that is being in heaven. We say they are there and talk about it as though it were a location, again, because that is how we talk, but when we say this what we mean is that they are in a state of bliss, that they remain themselves (not absorbed into some sort nothingness as some religions believe), and that they are united with God. Everything else is imagery, the literal accuracy of which is unknown.

 

[Vouthon]

Technically, heaven and hell are states of being beyond time and place

I’ll give you some quotes and explanation of this tommorrow, if someone else doesn’t do so by then in sufficient depth.

 

[Corki]

This is confusing for me.I’ve heard that Heaven and *heck are best described as “states of being”.One a state of eternal bliss and like unity with God and the other and state of eternal torment and being permenently distanced from God’s love.However if I consider and think of them as being “states of being” then this sort of conflicts with how other beings “live”/reside their.I’m reffering to angels,saints in Heaven and demons and the bedamned in heck.If their around then wouldn’t that mean that Heaven and heck would have to be “places” in order for them to be “living” their and not “states of being”? .

I’m really stumped here ,Wouldn’t this only make sense if you think about in the conventional way of thinking about Heaven and heck as “places” by which more specifically I mean realms of existance and not something more to the effect of states of existance?.

*for those who are thinking about chiding me for using the word heck instead of the other one (b/c it’s happened before in the past -_-) I just like to say that I do that b/c for the most part I’m not comfortable saying the other word.

If you don’t want to say “hell” you can say perdition but heck is not a synonym for hell.

Realm is a good word to explain them. Plane of existence is another.

Place is not a bad way to think of heaven and hell as long as you remember that God is not bound to the laws of physics. An eternal place is not the same as a geographical place. Place is a concept that our human minds can apply since we all know that a person cannot be in two places at the same time. You cannot be in heaven at the same time you are on earth. You cannot be in heaven at the same time that you are in hell.

I find place easier to internalize than “state of being” since a person can enjoy multiple states of being at the same time but not multiple places.

 

[_Abyssinia]

I believe Heaven is a state of being and a place but not in space and time as we understand it

Mark Shea says

One mistake that many people make about heaven is to suppose that, because the work of the Gospel is so strongly focused on our spiritual renewal, heaven must merely be a “state of mind.”

On the contrary, heaven will involve not merely what we call our “spirit,” but every part of us — including the body. That is the point of Christ’s resurrection. Humans are not disembodied spirits. We exist in perfection only as a union of body, soul and spirit.
So the perfect happiness of heaven necessarily entails our resurrection in a glorified body like Christ’s. And a glorified body must, in turn, exist in some sort of place, not simply float around in the ether.

That place is called “the New Heaven and the New Earth” in Scripture: a renewed creation where we will experience not only the ecstasy and glory of perfect communion with God and one another in perfect love, but also the pleasures of sense that are ours as physical beings.

A universe in which we are at peace and ecstasy with God and one another in body, soul and spirit, where nature itself is no longer the war of all against all, but a vast and glorious sacramental expression of God’s love — it’s more than we can really take in. But it is the ultimate goal of all Christ came to do. And it’s ours for the asking.

 

[Nelka]

This is confusing for me.I’ve heard that Heaven and *heck are best described as “states of being”.One a state of eternal bliss and like unity with God and the other and state of eternal torment and being permenently distanced from God’s love.However if I consider and think of them as being “states of being” then this sort of conflicts with how other beings “live”/reside their.I’m reffering to angels,saints in Heaven and demons and the bedamned in heck.If their around then wouldn’t that mean that Heaven and heck would have to be “places” in order for them to be “living” their and not “states of being”? .

I’m really stumped here ,Wouldn’t this only make sense if you think about in the conventional way of thinking about Heaven and heck as “places” by which more specifically I mean realms of existance and not something more to the effect of states of existance?.

*for those who are thinking about chiding me for using the word heck instead of the other one (b/c it’s happened before in the past -_-) I just like to say that I do that b/c for the most part I’m not comfortable saying the other word.

I’m confused.

Heaven exists and we can earn a place their for eternity if we choose.

Never heard of heck before, what is it? Sheol?

 

[GEddie]

I’m confused.

Heaven exists and we can earn a place their for eternity if we choose.

Never heard of heck before, what is it? Sheol?

Like someone said: “I prefer to believe in Gosh, because if you sin against Gosh, you only have to go to Heck.”



Seriously, Heaven and the other one are places, one of where we will be after we are released from being dead. But they are not places in the sense of our being able to travel there. In either case, a change in being is involved.

ICXC NIKA

 

[Aelred_Minor]

A spirit is only present where it is active, so if after death a human spirit is no longer active in any physical place then it will not be present in any physical place. Therefore, Heaven and Hades (is that ok?) would be most properly conceived of as states of being rather than physical places.

However, there are already some human beings in heaven who have been reunited with their bodies (Jesus and Mary at the very least, and probably a few others) and eventually all the souls in both will likewise be reunited with their bodies. Since these resurrected bodies will be in some sense real physical bodies, it follows that wherever the physical bodies of the elect will be could be called “Heaven” and wherever the physical bodies of the reprobate will be could be called “Hades.”

 

[Marc_Anthony]

Well right now since it’s before the Second Coming it has to be a state of being since with no physical body we can’t be in a physical place.

After the Second Coming when we have physical bodies Hell will be both.

 

[Crimsonflyboy]

For those who say heaven is not a physical place, what do you make of Our Lady being assumed body and soul into Heaven?

 

[Marc_Anthony]

For those who say heaven is not a physical place, what do you make of Our Lady being assumed body and soul into Heaven?

Since God is out of time Mary and Jesus’s bodies are probably already present in the New Earth.

This is a really hard concept to wrap your brain around, which I know because I’m getting confused myself :whacky:

 

[Faith1960]

Seriously, Heaven and the other one are places, one of where we will be after we are released from being dead. But they are not places in the sense of our being able to travel there. In either case, a change in being is involved.

ICXC NIKA

Can you talk more about that? I don’t understand how they can be places, yet not places we’d be able to travel to.

 

[GEddie]

Can you talk more about that? I don’t understand how they can be places, yet not places we’d be able to travel to.

Sure.

Imagine a flat universe, on a say vertical plane, with circular stars and planets, and flat Gumby-bodies walking around the rim of a circular earth.

Is our world a “place”? Sure; would Gumby-body be able to travel to it? No. His flat limbs and edge-feet would have no way of stepping into our world or moving around in it. For that matter, his circular eyes would not even see our world.

To be in our world, Gumby-body would need to change to a solid body. This is analogous to our need for the pneumatikon soma, to experience life eternal.

There is a book on Gutenberg about higher dimensions and the spiritual world. The title escapes me at the moment. When I find it, I’ll post a reference.

Shalom, ICXC NIKA

 

[Faith1960]

Sure.

Imagine a flat universe, on a say vertical plane, with circular stars and planets, and flat Gumby-bodies walking around the rim of a circular earth.

Is our world a “place”? Sure; would Gumby-body be able to travel to it? No. His flat limbs and edge-feet would have no way of stepping into our world or moving around in it. For that matter, his circular eyes would not even see our world.

To be in our world, Gumby-body would need to change to a solid body. This is analogous to our need for the pneumatikon soma, to experience life eternal.

There is a book on Gutenberg about higher dimensions and the spiritual world. The title escapes me at the moment. When I find it, I’ll post a reference.

Shalom, ICXC NIKA

Sorry but the Gumby analogy REALLY has me confused. I apologize.
I’ll be looking forward to you posting information about the higher dimensions and spirit world.