Are lies always morally wrong when told for a good purpose?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Ilkka
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
I

Ilkka

Guest
Hi!

I’m a nurse that deals with a lot of Alzheimer’s patients and old people with other cognitive diseases like that. As you who know someone with AD also know, these people can often be very challenging to take care of. Sometimes they will insist that they absolutely must go somewhere or do something which involves them putting themselves in a great risk of self-harm. I see this in Alzheimer’s care homes a lot where the residents, as we call them, often insist that they have to leave the locked building alone for some reason. They really think they are missing work or that they need to be taking care of their children or something. These situations often resolve by simply switching the subject or starting a conversation about the thing they feel like they need to do. However, sometimes they are very determined to do whatever it is they think they have to do and nothing seems to work. They will get agitated if not let to leave outside on their own. Sometimes I’ve finally lied to them saying some things like ’the last bus there already left’ or whatever thing they thought they needed to do was already taken care of. This has always helped and the situation hasn’t escalated. Also, as people with a disease affecting their memory, they soon forget about the incident altogether.

Would you say this is morally wrong or acceptable? The only goal of lying in this situation is to resolve the situation that would otherwise possibly lead to aggression or self-harm of the patient.
 
Last edited:
Hello

Lying is immoral. There are limited cases (think of the many situations people in Nazi Germany found themselves in during the Holocaust etc), nonetheless, where I would not judge someone for lying.

In short - the ends do not justify the means. It is not good to do something immoral, even if something good will result from it.

I will not judge your specific situation - I will let someone more theologically well informed answer that if they see fit.

May the Lord be with you,

catholic03.

IC XC NIKA.
 
Last edited:
Ilkka said:
Would you say this is morally wrong or acceptable? T
Click to expand...
Ilkka said:
Sometimes I’ve finally lied to them saying some things like ’the last bus there already left’
Click to expand...
I have seen this question come up before. As far as I can make out, people will try to get out of calling this a sin or a lie by saying that it is a mental reservation. So for example, when you say “the last bus has left” you really mean the last bus for this hour has left, but you forget to say or omit to say “for this hour.” So the argument goes that this is not a lie but is a mental reservation which is allowed in some cases such as you have mentioned here.
There was a Saint who wanted to protect someone from a murderer who was chasing him. The victim ran to the east. Then the murderer came to the saint and asked: Did you see where John (the victim) ran. The saint said yes and turned his head to the west, nodding in that direction and saying he went in that direction. The murderer ran to the west. But as the saint was nodding his head to the west and saying John went in that direction, he pointed his finger in his pants to the east which the murderer could not see. So as some tell this story, the saint did not lie, because he did not say the victim ran to the west. The saint said that the victim ran in that direction and pointed his finger to the east, although his finger could not be seen by the murderer,.
 
CCC 2482 “A lie consists in speaking a falsehood with the intention of deceiving.” The Lord denounces lying as the work of the devil: “You are of your father the devil, . . . there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks according to his own nature, for he is a liar and the father of lies.”

CCC 2483 Lying is the most direct offense against the truth. To lie is to speak or act against the truth in order to lead someone into error. By injuring man’s relation to truth and to his neighbor, a lie offends against the fundamental relation of man and of his word to the Lord.

CCC 2484 The gravity of a lie is measured against the nature of the truth it deforms, the circumstances, the intentions of the one who lies, and the harm suffered by its victims. If a lie in itself only constitutes a venial sin, it becomes mortal when it does grave injury to the virtues of justice and charity.

CCC 2485 By its very nature, lying is to be condemned. It is a profanation of speech, whereas the purpose of speech is to communicate known truth to others. The deliberate intention of leading a neighbor into error by saying things contrary to the truth constitutes a failure in justice and charity. The culpability is greater when the intention of deceiving entails the risk of deadly consequences for those who are led astray.

CCC 2486 Since it violates the virtue of truthfulness, a lie does real violence to another. It affects his ability to know, which is a condition of every judgment and decision. It contains the seed of discord and all consequent evils. Lying is destructive of society; it undermines trust among men and tears apart the fabric of social relationships.
 
Say you’re watching small children and they get fussy, crying, want their mommy. We would all say, it’s okay, mommy will be here soon. Well soon could be 3 hours or 5 minutes. Again, it’s about managing the care required.
 
I actually thought about this mental reservation thing. To me, it seems a bit like hypocrisy. I mean, if you’re telling something that isn’t quite true for the benefit of someone else and not to deceive them; why act as if it’s a sin and try to justify it by deceiving yourself? To me, mental reservation doesn’t seem like a lie, per se, but a deception of self. I think this against the virtue of justice while the action that is being concealed from self isn’t a sin in itself.
thistle said:
CCC 2482 “A lie consists in speaking a falsehood with the intention of deceiving.”
Click to expand...
To me it seems that in this specific instance it wouldn’t then constitute as lying because there is no intent to deceive. To deceive is always done for the advantage of self so when I make a false statement for the advantage of the person the false statement is made to, it doesn’t constitute a lie. Am I correct?
 
In this case you are dealing with people who aren’t dealing with reality. If you argue with them it will only get worse. If you talk to them at their level then I don’t think that would really count as the sin of lying.
 
Ilkka said:
To me it seems that in this specific instance it wouldn’t then constitute as lying because there is no intent to deceive. To deceive is always done for the advantage of self so when I make a false statement for the advantage of the person the false statement is made to, it doesn’t constitute a lie. Am I correct?
Click to expand...
The Church teaches that you may not do an evil even if it is to achieve a good end.
The end does not justify the means.
 
Oh goodness. These poor souls with dementia or Alzheimer’s are not cognitively healthy. You’re having to deal with a mind that is not rational or logical at all. You’re doing whatever you can to keep them safe.
Their own minds are lying to them! I don’t think that what you are doing counts as lying at all. If you were saying these things with an intent to deceive to a healthy person, that would be different.
 
I don’t think telling an Alzheimer’s patient that they cannot get to work because the last bus has already left has any kind of deception.

You are telling them they cannot leave and they cannot leave. You are telling them the last bus already left, and the last bus that could get them where they want to go did leave a long time ago.

If you know that the direct truth will not be understood and will only cause confusion, then a partial truth that brings them greater understanding is not a lie, it is a translation. It is an attempt to bring them as much truth as you can safely do. Doubly so if there is still hope you can help them understand more once they are calm.

Now if you told an Alzheimer’s WWII veteran that he could not go outside because the Germans had taken over, that would be a manipulation and a lie.
 
You need to discuss this with your care supervisor. I’m sure there are ethics guidelines for how best to handle it. It’s not a new situation, nor are you the only carer who is concerned about morality. Religious sisters nursed plenty of these people in the past and they are even more careful about not sinning than ordinary Catholics.

You also need to remember that you are in a situation of providing medical care to people whose minds don’t process information correctly. That means their minds also don’t process what you say in a correct manner. That’s where medical ethics comes in.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top