Are monks/nuns laypeople?

[Rocky8311]

Howdy,

My question is: are monks/nuns laypeople, clergy, or something else? When I mention monks here, I mean those who aren’t ordained, but have made vows. In this question, no one has received Holy Orders, but are members of religious orders.

I had read that for liturgical purposes, bishops/priests/deacons as ordinary ministers of the Eucharist must administer the Eucharist at Mass if they are present before EMHC’s are tapped from the laypeople, but that nuns don’t have to be chosen first before laypeople because liturgically we’re of the same standing?

 

[LilyM]

Liturgically they are the same as us - in liturgy the distinction is between the ordained (deacons, priests and bishops) and the unordained.

Otherwise monks and nuns are known as ‘religious’, as opposed to ‘clergy’ (ordained) or laity.

 

[drafdog]

They are members of the laity unless ordained. They are simply following a celibate lifestyle in their path home to the Father.

Matthew

 

[Lepanto]

Anyone who is not ordained (deacon, priest, bishop) is laity.

Since women can not be ordained, nuns and sisters (there is a difference between them) are consecrated religious, but they are technically laity.

Monks and friars (yes, there is a difference between them too) are also consecrated religious. Those monks and friars who are not ordained are technically laity as well. Some monks and friars are ordained, so they are not laity.

Got that?

 

[itsjustdave1988]

…I had read that for liturgical purposes, bishops/priests/deacons as ordinary ministers of the Eucharist must administer the Eucharist at Mass if they are present before EMHC’s are tapped from the laypeople, but that nuns don’t have to be chosen first before laypeople because liturgically we’re of the same standing?

Generally, according to the Sacred Congregation on the Sacraments, EMHC are to be chosen according to a specific order, although the local ordinary may change the order for prudent reasons:

Immensae Caritatis,Jan 29, 1973

The fit person referred to in nos. I and II will be designated according to the order of this listing (which may be changed at the prudent discretion of the local Ordinary): reader, major seminarian, man religious, woman religious, catechist, one of the faithful—a man or a woman.

According to Vatican II’s Dogmatic Constitution on the Church, Lumen Gentium:

the Sacred Council gladly turns its attention. to the state of those faithful called THE LAITY… The term laity is here understood to mean all the faithful except those in holy orders and those in the state of religious life specially approved by the Church." (no. 31).

Religious are not considered laity according to the above reference.

 

[RevDrNorth]

Generally, according to the Sacred Congregation on the Sacraments, EMHC are to be chosen according to a specific order, although the local ordinary may change the order for prudent reasons:

Immensae Caritatis,Jan 29, 1973
According to Vatican II’s Dogmatic Constitution on the Church, Lumen Gentium:
Religious are not considered laity according to the above reference.

Dave…good to see you post!

Hope all is well with your career and family. I enjoyed your posts at Theolgyreview as you were a very articulate and brave spokesperson for the Catholic faith (often in the face of some bizarre Chick Publications fueled accusations). Also, felt an affinity for you since we graduated the same year. Hard to believe that the music (New Wave, etc) is showing up as “oldies”. You know you are older when you hear a song that you think is really cool and you kid goes “Daaaad…what are you listening to”.

You are answer to this post is very interesting. I had always hear they were considered laity.

Rev North

 

[itsjustdave1988]

RevDrNorth,

Long time, no chat! I’m still addicted to theology forums, but stick mostly to CAF now-a-days. Arguing about the same issues again and again on Protestant forums, like “call no man father” and “why do you worship Mary,” just don’t seem to capture my interest much anymore.

With regard to the terms “cleric” and “laity”, it seems they have been used with different senses in ecclesiastical usage. While Lumen Gentium, no. 31 describes laity as including all those not in holy order AND religious life, the 1983 Code of Canon law uses the term “laity” as excluding those who have not been ordained (holy orders). So a stricter sense is sometimes used, and other times a broader sense.

The Catholic Encyclopedia states:

“The laity are the members of this [Christian] society who remain where they were placed by baptism.” [Catholic Encyclopedia - Laity].

“While cleric in its strict sense means one who has received the ecclesiastical tonsure, yet in general sense it is also employed in canon law for all to whom clerical privileges have been extended. Such are the members of religious orders: Monks and nuns, and even lay brothers and novices. It is also applied to tertiaries of the mendicant orders.” [Catholic Encyclopedia - Cleric].

 

[Malcolm_McLean]

Howdy,
My question is: are monks/nuns laypeople, clergy, or something else? When I mention monks here, I mean those who aren’t ordained, but have made vows. In this question, no one has received Holy Orders, but are members of religious orders.

Any person can renounce the world and be a hermit. Any two people of the same sex can do it together and become a religious order. There are no real controls, though obviously established orders tend to be less lackadaisical. One of the exceptions was Mother Therea’s Missionaries of Charity. She would accept anyone who wanted to help, on any basis.

What it means is that you can’t expect any real status from the church in exchange for declaring yourself to be a monk or nun.

 

[Malcolm_McLean]

Howdy,
My question is: are monks/nuns laypeople, clergy, or something else? When I mention monks here, I mean those who aren’t ordained, but have made vows. In this question, no one has received Holy Orders, but are members of religious orders.

Any person can renounce the world and be a hermit. Any two people of the same sex can do it together and become a religious order. There are no real controls, though obviously established orders tend to be less lackadaisical. One of the exceptions was Mother Therea’s Missionaries of Charity. She would accept anyone who wanted to help, on any basis.

What it means is that you can’t expect any real status from the church in exchange for declaring yourself to be a monk or nun.

 

[Malcolm_McLean]

Howdy,
My question is: are monks/nuns laypeople, clergy, or something else? When I mention monks here, I mean those who aren’t ordained, but have made vows. In this question, no one has received Holy Orders, but are members of religious orders.

Any person can renounce the world and be a hermit. Any two people of the same sex can do it together and become a religious order. There are no real controls, though obviously established orders tend to be less lackadaisical. One of the exceptions was Mother Therea’s Missionaries of Charity. She would accept anyone who wanted to help, on any basis.

What it means is that you can’t expect any real status from the church in exchange for declaring yourself to be a monk or nun.

 

[m134e5]

They are members of the laity unless ordained. They are simply following a celibate lifestyle in their path home to the Father.

Matthew

I don’t know…I would distinguish between the laity and consecrated religious, because of the vows they take (particularly since there are also lay men and women who have “normal” jobs and live “normal” lives, they are just single and plan to stay that way forever. There is no sacramental distinction…but there is another, very real, distinction there. They are attached to the Church in a way that married people and lay single people are not.