Could you give some examples of the passages that teach this? From what I understand of the bible (and what I was taught in the Catholic Church) is that man is totally depraved and cannot avoid the temptations of sin. With Jesus’ death and resurrection, he has payed the price for our wickedness provided we accept this free gift. However, since we have free will, we can choose to accept or reject this gift of salvation at any time through out our lives.
I’m very concerned about a “Jesus” who would tell you this, in contradiction to His previous teachings.Maybe because becoming a Christian does** not** eliminate a human being’s tendency toward sin?
(Romans 6: 10 - 11) “When He died, He died, once for all, to sin, so His life now is life with God; and in that way, you too must consider yourselves to be dead to sin but alive for God in Jesus Christ.”
…a Christian who knows God can’t sin.
QUOTE]
It is true that a Christian who “knows God” and who is “born of God” cannot sin (See 1 John 3:9, 5:18). However, by your question, I think you are a little confused as to what St. John means when he uses the expressions “knows God” and “born of God.” St. John defines these terms in 1 John 4:7-8:Beloved, let us love one another; for love is of God, and he who loves is born of God and knows God. He who does not love does not know God; for God is love.
As indicated, the expressions “born of God” and “knows God” means “he who loves”, that is, he who loves his neighbor “in deed and in truth.” (1 John 3:18) Therefore, it is quite true that a Christian who loves his neighbor in deed and in truth cannot and does not sin, as long as he loves. However, can it be said that a Christian, just because he is a Christian, always loves his neighbor in deed and in truth? No. Otherwise, St. John would have had no need in the same verse and numerous other places to tell Christians to “love one another.” The fact that Christians are not always true to their calling to love one another and sometimes fall short and sin should be obvious to you from experience but it is also indicated in an earlier passage in the same letter where St. John says: If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just, and will forgive our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us. (1 John 1:8-10)
Likewise, the fact that Christians sometimes sin is also indicated in the petition in the Lord’s Prayer: “and forgive us our sins, for we ourselves forgive every one who is indebted to us.” (Luke 11:4)
In Romans 6:11, St. Paul says:
So you also must consider yourselves dead to sin and alive to God in Christ Jesus.
St. Paul does not say Christians are dead to sin but that Christians must consider or think of themselves as dead to sin as a necessary goal towards which they must strive. Just because you are a Christian, however, does not make you dead to sin. Otherwise, St. Paul would have no need to tell Christians in the very next verses:
Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal bodies, to make you obey their passions. Do not yield your members to sin as instruments of wickedness, but yield yourselves to God as men who have been brought from death to life, and your members to God as instruments of righteousness. (Romans 6:12-13)
Or, as he tells Christians in Colossians 3:5-10ut to death therefore what is earthly in you: fornication, impurity, passion, evil desire, and covetousness, which is idolatry. … In these you once walked, when you lived in them. But now put them all away: anger, wrath, malice, slander, and foul talk from your mouth. Do not lie to one another, seeing that you have put off the old nature with its practices and have put on the new nature, which is being renewed in knowledge after the image of its creator.
Similarly, the author of Hebrews warns Christians about the consequences if they sin deliberately:For if we sin deliberately after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, but a fearful prospect of judgment, and a fury of fire which will consume the adversaries. A man who has violated the law of Moses dies without mercy at the testimony of two or three witnesses. How much worse punishment do you think will be deserved by the man who has spurned the Son of God, and profaned the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified, and outraged the Spirit of grace? (Hebrews 10:26-31)
Shane: Colossians 1:24 Now I rejoice in my sufferings for your sake, and in my flesh I complete what is lacking in Christ’s afflictions for the sake of his body, that is, the church.
Jane Doe: so he is talking about the church then?
Shane: let me phrase it in a more modern way
Shane: I am very happy, because I suffer for your sake. My suffering completes what is missing in Christ’s own suffering for you people: His Church.
Jane Doe: so pauls suffering made the church
Shane: That is part of it. That’s the part of it Protestants believe. He suffered a lot and had to put in a lot of hard work to get the Church off the ground. The other part of it is this:
Shane: God and salvation is all about Grace. We need Grace, but we are born without it because of Adam and Eve.
Shane: Jesus says that if we want to be saved we have to repent: we have to stop sinning and turn to God. If we keep sinning, we don’t goto Heaven. But thanks to Adam and Eve, we keep sinning. The only thing that can keep stop us from sinning is for God to give us the Grace we need to live without sinning.
Shane: When we suffer, it is a way to build Grace. God gives us Grace for our suffering. Our Suffering can also be done so others can get Grace.
Shane: The Bible very often teaches two things at once: a specific lesson, and a general lesson. In Collossians, Paul is showing specifically that his suffering has helped bring the Church about. Generally he is teaching how suffering can bring Grace to others. For example, his suffering is bringing the Gospel to people, and the knowledge of the Gospel is a form of Grace.
Shane: If you want to read about how we get Grace by suffering, you can read 2 Corinthians 12:6-10, or James 1:2-4, or 1 Peter 2:20-21. If you want to read about how we can get Grace for others by suffering, read 1 Corinthians 12:24-26.
Shane: And above all, remember Jesus’ words: “And whoever doesn’t take up his cross and follow Me is not worthy of Me.”
Shane: (the phrase “take up your cross” is a saying that means to suffer certain things that happen to you in your life, or that you choose to have happen to you, like fasting)
Jane Doe: so does all this grace build up?
Jane Doe: or is it only good for so long?
Jane Doe: know what i mean?
Shane: um
Shane: does it all build up…
Shane: that could mean a few things
Shane: The answer is that yes, it does.
Shane: Sin works agaisnt grace though
Shane: God gives us Grace, but we have to cooperate with it. A guy could have all the grace in the world but if he really wants to sin God is not going to force him not to.
Shane: think of Grace like a tool (its more complicated obviously lol)
Shane: we are all trying to build something, and God says to us, here do you want this tool to help? He’s standing there with His hand out offering it, but some people just don’t want it, they want to do it all themselves.
Shane: Pride is the root of all sins. Every sin basically equates to saying, “I want to live without God, so I can do this thing He doesn’t want me to.” This is WHY we go to Hell: when we sin, we are telling God we don’t want to be with Him.
Shane: when we commit mortal sin, we are totally rejecting God so we have no Grace. When we repent and confess, we get all that Grace back, we don’t have to start over. Venial sin never loses Grace for us, but every venial sin we commit builds up a “resistance” to Grace just a little bit more each time so that we are less likely to cooperate with the Grace and more likely commit a mortal sin cuz we don’t care about the Grace any more. Since we get grace by doing good for others, or by fasting or praying or things like that, the more we do good, or fast, or pray, the more Grace we have. This is why the cannonized Saints had so much Grace: they did so much good! Jane Doe: so basically, the more prayer/fasting/good works you do, the less likely you will be to sin
Shane: (that’s also why the more good we do, the more we pray, the more we want to love God and the more good we want to do. The more we help the poor, the more we love helping the poor because we are getting filled with Grace
Shane: yeah! absolutely. Protestants say the same thing, they just think of it differently (although their belief is a lot closer to the Catholic one than they realize)
Did your neighbor die for you, is your neighbor God? Jesus died for us so we could die to sin. You all should read (Acts 5:-11) again. Where was all that forgiviness of Ananias and Sapphira?
(1 John 3:5-6) “Now you know that he appeared in order to abolish sin, and that in him there is no sin; anyone who lives in God does not sin, and anyone who sins has never seen him or known him.”
Are you sure what Peter was doing was sinning? What is sin? Don’t you have to know it is a sin and then do it anyway? Read (Hebrews 6;4) again.
Galatians 2:11 ff. Yes, Peter KNEW he was wrong to do what he did, preach one thing then do another, specifically something so big!! God calls out hypocrites time & time again & this is what Paul brought to Peter’s attention.
adstrinity said:
